Special counsel jack smith announcing the third indictment of donald j. Trump after months of investigating the former president and his allies and their efforts to overturn the 2020 president ial election. This hour well have indepth coverage of the accusations against trump and the new information were learning about his attempt to stay in power from that sweeping federal investigation. And well also look at how this latest legal issue could impact the president ial campaign as he has used previous indictments to boost fundraising. Good morning, and welcome to Way Too Early on this wednesday, august 2nd, a historic day. Im jonathan lemire. Thanks for starting it with us. And well begin this morning with history once again. Former President Donald Trump who took an oath to preserve, protect, and defend the United States constitution has been indicted for allegedly trying to subvert that very same document. In washington, d. C. Yesterday a federal grand jury of trumps own peers convened by Special Counsel jack smith voted to charge the former president for his alleged efforts to stay enpower after he lost the 2020 election. The 45page indictment lays out four Felony Charges against trump. They are conspiracy to defraud the United States, conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, obstruction of an attempt to obstruct an official proceeding, and conspiracy against rights. Speaking about the case after the indictment was unsealed, smith emphasized the seriousness of these charges. The attack on our nations capitol on january 6, 2021, was an unprecedented assault on the seat of american democracy. Described in the indictment, it was fueled by lies. Lies by the defendant targeted at obstructing a Bedrock Function of the u. S. Government, the nations process of collecting, counting, and certifying the results of the president ial election. Trump is scheduled to make his First Court Appearance in this new case tomorrow, thursday, at 4 00 p. M. In washington, d. C. The indictment against trump alleges that he knew his claims of the election being stolen were false and that he was notified repeatedly that those claims were not true. The document begins with this statement. Reading in part, quote, the defendant lost the 2020 president ial election. Despite having lost, the defendant was determined to remain in power. So for more than two months following election day on november 2020, the defendant spread lies there had been Determinative Fraud in the election and that he had actually won. It goes on these claims were false and the defendant knew they were false, but the defendant repeated and widely disseminated them anyway to make his knowingly false claims appear legitimate, create distrust and anger and erode public faith in the election. And now to this day the former president still insists that the election was stolen from him even though he lost to now President Joe Biden by millions of votes. ThenVice President mike pence and senior Government Officials warned trump and his coconspirators that their efforts to hold onto power could lead to civil unrest. The indictment also highlights how on january 4, 2021, after one unnamed coconspirator acknowledged to a Senior Advisor that, quote, no court would acknowledge his proposal to reject the electoral votes cast for president biden, he responded this way, youre going to cause riots in the street. Joining us now former u. S. Attorney and msnbc contributor barbara mcquade. We also have with us On Set Msnbc Legal analyst danny cevallos. Barb, lets start with you and quite simply get your initial raebz after reading the 45page indictment and hearing from Special Counsel smith. No surprise in light of the Target Letter we got. What was surprising to me was the inclusion of six coconspirators without naming them and without charging them. That says to me jack smith is laser focused on getting this case tried as soon as possible. It gives them one last opportunity to become witnesses and cooperators instead of defending because eventually hell get around to charging them if they dont get onboard. I think strategically really a brilliant move by jack smith to charge the way he did. Danny, as we just read the indictment lays out trump was repeatedly told that he lost. He knew that he lost. How important is establishing that exact . And is that something that trump and his team is going to try to how would they push back to say their claim would be, no, maybe he did believe he won, he did believe it was stolen . To me that is the most important thing ing this indictment. Its not surprising since weve known almost all the facts since the January 6th Hearing Last Summer and arguably a lot of these date back to trumps impeachment trial, some of these we saw and hear. Trumps defense has been narrowing for some time to really his window is based on ignorance. And ignorance of the law is typically nut a defense, but ignorance can go to his intent. Just as you sort of frame there, his defense will probably revolve around for all these charges, look, i believe that the election was being stolen. I believed that what i was doing was the right thing, i believe i was upholding the constitution challenging these Election Results. And so for me the key was attacking that intent. And here the government does just that. They do it on starting on page 6 and 7 and a section entitled essentially all the things trump should have known or knew, and they go through all the people that told him he was wrong, his own Vice President , Senior Leaders of the Justice Department, the director of national intelligence. And so if trump wants to go into trial with the argument that, look, you cant prove what i actually believe, prosecutors are saems saying go ahead and try that defense. Well trot in all these witnesses who are not cooperating witnesses, who are not criminals. Theyre going to be probably Senior Leaders of the Justice Department who will say we told the president that what he was doing was wrong, and yet he went forward with this idea. So the government will simply say to a jury that a reasonable view given all the people that told him otherwise. And you mentioned the january 6th house committee, many have said it was their work that really kick started and pushed the doj to move forward with their own investigation. Barb, you mentioned those unnamed six coconspirators. We can piece together Rudy Giuliani seems to be one, john eastman, et cetera. More than that, weve heard from the beginning all the investigations swirling around trump this one the most important but maybe also the hardest one to prove. Do you think thats still the case . I do only because the part danny just highlighted about criminal intent. Theres also a Jury Instruction that no doubt will be given in this case regarding willful blindness, and that instruction says that a person cannot be deliberately ignorant of a high probability that a fact is true. And so here as danny pointed out jack smith goes through great pains to prove at trial donald trump knew he lost the election or he was willfully blind to it. It was the equivalent of a toddler putting their hands over their ears and humming loudly to say i cant hear you. So i think a jury can draw a reasonable inference from all those facts that donald trump absolutely knew he had lost this election. And so i think in some ways one of the things that jack smith did here was keep this stream lined and focused. I think hes avoided some of the constitutional defenses donald trump could have raised. Hes focused on all the things weve kind of known, the facts a to z to steal this election knowing he had lost. Thats a great point how this is actually very little about january 6th and the riot but much more about they lied. Its noteworthy it makes direct reference of trumps attempt to overturn election in georgia. We may get charges on that within the next week or two. What do you make of the fact its included here . How interesting is it this is going to be something pursued at the state and federal level . Page 12, this is very significant to me on page 12 in the section entitled georgia, the indictment lays out facts that support its charges against donald trump. And to me if im the Fulton CountyDistrict Attorney, that feels almost like a Shot Across The Bow that, hey, the federal government seems to think what happened in georgia constitutes a crime. What are we going to do . And i felt when i read that yesterday i thought, boy, eyes are turning south to Fulton County georgia to see what the attorneys there will do with these allegations. Again, theyre not a surprise. The facts about what happened in georgia are known publicly and theyve been known for years. The Real Question is did the federal government and does the Fulton County d. A. Think those facts constitute a crime . We know now the federal government that jack smiths team believes they did constitute a crime, and now the question is does fani willis and the Fulton CountyDistrict Attorney believe the facts which weve known are alleged and now alleged on page 12, do those constitute a crime in georgia . An allstar legal panel to get us started this morning. Barbara mccade, and danny cevallos, thank you both. Still ahead here well have coverage legal and political of this indictment including what u. S. Attorney Merrick Garland is saying about these charges about trump. Plus more revelations from the Special Counsels office including one exchange trump had with mike pence where he criticized his thenVice President for being, quote, too honest. Well be right back. Quote, too honest well be right back. This is your moment. Critics declare oppenheimer is magnificent. The New York Times calls it staggering. Its utterly enthralling and one of the best movies of the century. Hi. 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So immediately after the january 6th attack on our democracy, the career men and women of the Justice Department engaged in what has become the largest investigation in our history. On november last i appointed jack smith the Special Counsel to take on the investigation in order to hiheight the departments experience. Smith and his career team of prosecutors and agents have followed the facts and law wherever they lead. Any questions about this matter will have to be answered by the filings made in the courtroom. Thats Attorney GeneralMerrick Garland briefly addressing the newest indictment against former President Trump during an event he attended in philadelphia last night. And in that new indictment we also learned about trumps alleged efforts to get mike pence to help him overturn the 2020 election. Trump allegedly made several private phone calls to his Vice President in the days leading up to the election certification proceeding, telling pence to reject those votes. But pence refused saying there was no constitutional basis for him to do that. In response on January 1st Trump allegedly told pence that he was, quote, too honest. And then just hours later trump reminded his supporters over twitter to protest the proceedings on january 6th, writing stop the steal. Now, as Pence Campaigns for the presidency himself, he continues to tell voters that trump was wrong to ask him to try to overturn the election. He reiterated that Statement Last night writing this, anyone who puts himself over the constitution should never be president of the United States. Our country is more important than one man. Our constitution is more important than any one mans career. Pence says hell have more to say after he reviews the full indictment, and as our show continues well bring reactions from republican lawmakers on capitol hill as well as those vying with trump for the gop president ial nomination. Still ahead here, well turn to a possible defense for trump in that Election Case. Well show you the arguments quoted last night by one of his lead attorneys. Well be right back with that. K. There are places youd like to be. Like here. And here. Not so much here. If you have chronic kidney disease, farxiga can help you keep living life. Farxiga and farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure, which can lead to dialysis. Farxiga can cause serious side effects including dehydration, Urinary Tract or genital Yeast Infections in women and men, and low blood sugar. Ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may lead to death. A rare lifethreatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. Stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this bacterial infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. Farxiga can help you keep living life. Ask your doctor for farxiga for chronic kidney disease. If you cant afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. Farxiga welcome back to Way Too Early. As we continue our coverage of the latest indictment of former President Donald Trump, and one of his lead attorneys in the 2020 Election Case seemed to lay out a possible defense for the former president last night. In an interview with fox news, a lawyer Named John Laro claimed this latest indictment was an attack on free speech and political advocacy. He also suggested that trump genuinely believe that all of the allegations of Election Fraud were true. I would like them try to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that donald trump believed these allegations were false. What did he see in realtime . He saw changes in Election Procedure in the middle of the game being carried out by executive level people at the state level, election officials, but not the state legislators. He had in advice of counsel a very detailed memorandum from a constitutional expert who said, mr. President , these states are complaining about what happened. You as the executive have the ability to ask Vice President pence to pause the vote on january 6th, have these states audit and recertify, and well know who won the president ial election. Thats what trump suggested. Theres nothing unlawful about that. Thats going to be the burden for jack smiths team to prove that, that line of defense. After the interview the former Chief Of Staff for Vice President pence disputed most of those lawyers claims. I think he does a great job of presenting himself as a victim. And while the russia Hoax Investigation i think was clearly unfair, i dont think hes really a victim in this case, and i dont think its right to say hes protecting the First Amendment rights of all americans. And i think, John The Reality is donald trump asked mike pence to overturn the results of the election. Interesting to see that view point being voiced on fox news. Time now for a check on the weather, and lets go to meeturousologist Angie Lassman for the forecast. 45 Million People and does include phoenix with the heat watch. Temperatures today ending back in the triple digits. Dallas at 106. We could see record breaking temperatures not just tomorrow but today, too. Meanwhile the north east and midwest really great conditions as we head into the end of our workweek and into the weekend. I dont think anyone is complaining of low 80s by the time saturday rolls around in new york. Good conditions there and also got showers and thunderstorms that could produce some really strong thunderstorms leading up to severe later today in parts of really the midwest. Missouri specifi