Morning, they want to try to move this trial to a friendlier venue. They suggest west virginia. We have got another jampacked hour of special coverage with reporters in the field providing the latest updates and the best legal and political minds we could find. And joining us this morning, nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian outside the courthouse. Nbc news correspondent garrett haake, who covers the Trump Campaign. Catherine christian, a former manhattan district attorney. She is also an msnbc legal analyst. And Ann Curb Kadori for new york magazine. Do we expect to hear from trump at all today, either before or after his arraignment . Well, we have been hearing from him already on social media, blasting this case as Election Interference as hes done so many times before, arguing the whole endeavor is an effort by joe biden and the biden doj to have him tied down in legal battles in 2024. Instead of focusing on the campaign. Hell also be traveling here today with reporters. I would not be surprised in the slightest if he finds a way to speak to the camera more directly as hes done after his two previous indictments. It is a way to capture fundraising and energy among his base, as you watch the cases with intense interest every time hes to appear before a judge. Garrett, youve been following closely the Trump Campaign. And the hefty financial cost of all these legal battles. What is the level of concern among those in trumps orbit about that . Look, it is a problem. They had to have transfer money around from different political organizations, supporting the former president , to move money they would rather spend on things Like Television ads, back to a pac, a Political Group where they can spend it on legal funds instead. Theyre setting up a separate Legal Defense fund to pay for court costs for people not named donald trump who have been caught up in some of these cases to shift the burden away from their political operation. And i can tell you, my inbox is filling up with fundraising appeals from the Trump Campaign that cite these cases specifically. So, it is a bit of a doubleedged sword for them. They raised a ton of money online from the supporters every time the former president has to appear in court, but they hemorrhage cash on the back end, paying for lawyers fees for donald trump and his various aides and associates who are caught up in this and who in many cases have remained loyal to him so they get a little bit of extra help in terms of their attorney fees. Garrett haake, thank you for being with us. I know you got to go back to reporting. Well see you soon. Thanks. Ken, i want to ask you about today. What can we expect today . Walk us through the arraignment process today, how much of it are we going to be seeing . Almost nothing, jose. And thats part of the frustration here. This is both a surrender and an arraignment. Mr. Trump is surrendering to federal authorities to be processed in this case. He will enter this Building En Route from the airport through an underground tunnel. We wont see him in public. Hell go into a courtroom where hell answer for the charges very much as what transpired in miami. A chance to plead or his lawyers will plead on his behalf. But importantly the public will not see this. Cameras are not allowed in Federal Courts, even though theyre allowed in most state courts around the country. There are as we understand it five seats in the courtroom reserved for the public. And 11 for the news media. There is an Overflow Room where well be able to watch the proceedings over a video screen. But i think, look, were reporters, were not here to give our opinions about things, but it is worth noting the incredible lack of transparency around this process in one of the most important criminal trials and proceedings in american history. The public is really walled off from seeing it and hearing it for themselves, guys. Is there a process for that to change . In other words, can it be changed . Yeah, there is a group of there is a Judiciary Council that has been considering various proposals for years. The Chief Justice of the United States has input, potentially the trial judge has input. But there has been a great resistance in the federal judiciary to have cameras in the courtroom. And at the Supreme Court as well. And, you know, if people want that to change, my advice to them would be to call their elected federal representatives and make their voices known. Let me ask you about that, catherine. Typically there are no cameras in Federal Court. We have come to accept that in most cases. Could that or should that be different for this trial, given the historic nature and the importance of transparency, especially with all the narratives that and the disinformation that is out there . Definitely. Were talking about a former president of the United States. So it is not this particular judges fault. Thats how it is done in the federal judiciary. But thats how it is done when you have defendants who are not the former president of the United States. And i am hopeful that the judicial council, the chief judge of the United States will change that. Now, the Supreme Court, you can hear audio of their proceedings. So at a minimum, maybe we can hear audio. I do think it is important, for the public to see this because the exact reasons you said, disinformation, the public can see the words coming out of the witness mouth, the public can see the judge. When one says the judge was unfair and was rude to me, the people will see, she seemed pretty fair and not rude. So, i hope that for this specific trial that the rules change. Who makes that decision . Is it the judge who oversees the trial or does it have to go to the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court . It is overhead. You cant blame an individual federal judge for not opening her courtroom. Meanwhile, were seeing we have an understanding that trumps airplane is now arriving at Newark International airport. So thats happening as we speak. You wrote that this is the most important criminal prosecution in american history. What did you mean by that . Donald trump has been accused of trying to steal the last president ial election. That is the theory of this criminal case. And to me it implicates the most significant issues and commitments that a president should have to this country. It is about democratic selfgovernance and his apparent effort to interfere with that process. And i really cant think of a criminal case that could be aimed at sort of a higher purpose than one that is designed to ensure that we are still governing ourselves and that we arent beholden to people who maybe want to stay in office, despite having lost an election. But trump would argue he truly believes what he has been saying about fraud, and so catherine, the legal team teased a Delusion Defense which would indicate he believed his own lies about the 2020 election and hes brought a lot of the country with him, 69 of republicans according to a new cnn poll believe joe biden is not correctly elected. Ill say two things, im not a psychiatrist, so i dont know whether being delusional qualifies as a severe Mental Disease and defect. There is a recognized Insanity Defense in Federal Court. And i would ask the defense is your client asserting an Insanity Defense, which he would have to prove not beyond a reasonable doubt, with clear and convincing evidence, that under the circumstances of his delusion, if it is a severe Mental Disease and defect, he could not understand the consequences of his actions. Putting that aside, if you read the indictment, the Special Counsel anticipated this and has listed all the credible people the Vice President , the white house counsel, the director of national intelligence, his ag, deputy ag, State Legislatures who all told him, President Trump, you lost, you lost, he lost all of those mainly frivolous lawsuits, they have documented all of those different people and like i said, these are not, you know, low level people, these are highranking officials, people who are credible, people who he hired, who told them he lost, not included in the indictment is someone who worked for him, i think her name is alyssa farah griffin, she repeated over and over again on another network that he said to her, i cant believe i lost to that guy. So im sure they have witnesses and other statements that are not included in the indictment to prove that he knew. Even in the indictment in two different places, they talk about how he said after meeting with the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff about a National Security issue, the chairman said, you know, we should push that, you know, until Inauguration Day and what was Donald Trumps response . Yeah, youre right. The next guy will have to deal with that. So, clearly he knew, according to that statement. He also he said that, you know, just call the election corrupt and me and the republican congressmen will deal with that issue. That was his response to his assistant attorneys general. So, they have anticipated this is going to be the defense. And theyre going to roll out one person after another who told him and it is an odd defense, you can basically say the president of the United States was delusional for two months while he was in office, but i think the Special Counsel is prepared for it. Yeah, and among the things that so far we have seen and this is just obviously the initial phase of it, but the defense, the Trump Defense team has been mentioning and kind of underlining is a Change Of Venue. Wondering how possible is that Change Of Venue and what is it in a trial like this that a Change Of Venue would be seen as something that could be done . So, he should not be able to obtain a Change Of Venue under the legal rules. Under the constitution, and relevance statutes, criminal cases have to be tried in the district in which the offense was committed. So the prosecutors dont have a choice here. And had there been some other sort of graphman in the conduct and the jurisdiction, maybe. But the fact that it is a heavily democratic jurisdiction is not sufficient for trump to just be able to get this case transferred. And in fact this argument has come up quite a few times over the last two, two and a half years in the context of other january 6th cases. There have been significant ones, Sedition Cases and the like, and many of those people made the same claims too. D. C. Is heavily democratic, they didnt vote for trump, how can you get a fair trial, thats not the litmus test for where we conduct trials in this country. Quickly, if you will, the timeline. How quickly could this trial move . I think this is a really critical and difficult question. A lot of it is going to be up to the judge. Shes going to have to consider there is already a march trial on the calendar, a may trial on the calendar, and unless one of those moves or the parties including those other prosecutors can figure something out, then shes looking at summer, right, around the nominating convention or the fall, which would be the sort of the last stretch of the Campaign Season if hes the general election nominee. And typically just give you one little data point, the most recent statistics that the court system, the Federal Court system put out, showed that the average time from the time when a criminal felony case is filed in d. C. To the disposition is over a year and a half. Thats the average case. And that includes cases that are played out, which drag that number down. You believe were talking about this . Just in general, the fact that were talking about a Change Of Venue and talking about how many the schedule and the different indictments. I mean it is remarkable. It is utterly remarkable. It is, you know, were all sort of getting tired of saying it, i think, that historic, unprecedented, but it is true and were living through a truly remarkable constitutional historic moment. Im, you know, as everyone here as invested as an american and interested and following along, but i also want to know how it ends and we may not know until the end of next year. So much is on the line right now. A lot at stake. Thank you. If you would stay with us, really appreciate you being with us this morning. Still ahead, were going to drill down on coconspirator one, believed to be trumps former lawyer Rudy Giuliani. Could he face charges . How much weight will mike pences written words have against his former boss . Youre watching special coverage of Donald Trumps third arraignment live from our Nations Capital. Were back in 60 seconds. From Nations Capital were back in 60 seconds so you only pay for what you need. Thats my boy. Stay off the freeways only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Do you struggle with occasional nerve aches only pay for what you need. In your hands or feet . Try Nervive Nerve relief from the worlds number one nerve care company. Nervive contains ala to relieve nerve aches, and bcomplex vitamins to fortify healthy nerves. Try nervive. And, try nervive pain relieving rollon. Mlb chooses tmobile for business for 5g solutions. To not only enhance the fan experience, but to advance how the game is played. Nows the time to see what americas largest 5g network can do for your business. Contemporaneous notes and specific conversations recalled by former Vice President mike pence now appear to be key evidence in the prosecution of donald trump. Pences efforts to stay neutral on the outcome of any indictment during Campaign Season just got a lot trickier. As for those notes he took, that detailed conversation with his former boss and pences former Chief Of Staff mark short says pence says that that was standard practice. As you can imagine, the job of Vice President of the United States is a pretty overwhelming position and there is a lot of information that flows through any single one day. He would often take notes, just to keep facts straight over time. Back with us now, former assistant d. A. And msnbc legal analyst Catherine Christian and prosecutor ankush khadori. When you hit page 32 of this indictment, the section outlining the defendants attempts to enlist the Vice President to fraudulently alter the election results, how compelling is this . It is very compelling and it goes on for another eight pages. It details, you know, how the pressure was put on, probably the we got the information from the Vice President s contemporaneous notes, how the pressure on the Vice President and the drumbeat, the pressure directly from the president of the United States and really sort of began on christmas day. Vice president pence called the president to wish him a merry christmas. And immediately the president changed the conversation and, you know, basically asked the Vice President to help him overturn the election. And then the Vice President said no and then it sort of thats when the drumbeat of the pressure began against Vice President pence. On new years day, the president , once again, you know, put pressure on the Vice President. It is listed in the indictment that, you know, he told him, the president told mike pence in response to mike pence saying i cant do this, dont have the authority to do this, what did the president say to him, quote, youre too honest. So, what does that mean . That also, i think, goes to show the defendant, trumps knowledge that he lost the election by saying to his Vice President , youre too honest, lets just lie, im adding those words. The Vice President said yesterday that even he was surprised by something he read in the indictment. Listen to this. After reading the indictment, did you learn anything new from it . Well, i did. I didnt know anything about the i didnt know anything about the efforts to secure fake electors in states around the country. I learned about that after the fact. You know, this is surprising to hear, right . So much has been talked about since this, you know, since the election and everything that happened. Im wondering, did that surprise you . You know that pence d