Along with donald trump in georgia. Indicted with them, Trumps White HouseChief Of Staff, mark meadows who could face the same fate as nixons Chief Of Staff who went to prison helping carry out his bosss crimes. Trump now facing 91 Felony Counts, most of his rivals for the republican president ial nomination still cant muster the courage to condemn him. And we begin tonight on that very note, donald trump drawing his fourth indictment. That is four more indictments than any prior president of the United States has ever faced. And true to form, trump is having an absolute meltdown on dimestore twitter, truth social. Lashing out against the Justice System and even singling out witnesses. More on that soon. But can we just pause for a second on the Car Mick Progression on all these cases. Just for a moment. The manhattan d. A. Indictment humbled trump in his hometown of New York City forcing him to surrender where the Central Park Five who trump called to execute in a fullpage ad or tried. Trumps second indictment exposed maralago as the gaudy florida hiding place for what the mansions employees who clearly dont respect him all that much called his Beautiful Mind boxes. Stashing them on the Ballroom Stage and behind a tacky Shower Curtain in a bathroom. Indictment number three zeroed in on trump alone the orchestrator of a plot to stay in Office Despite losing and taking advantage of the violence on january 6th to try to intimidate the Vice President into going along with his criminal scheme. Indictments two and three were brought by jack smith. During the time Rudy Giuliani was mayor of new york and presiding over a Police Department that specialized in police brutality, especially aimed at black new yorkers, that same jack smith prosecuted the cop who led the beating and torture of Haitian Immigrant Abner and who faced Jack Smith In Federal Court as one of the Defense Lawyers in that case, trumps lawyer in the e. Jean carroll sexual abuse case, joe tacopina. You really cannot make this stuff up. But of all the Indictments Trump has faced, it is the indictment, number four, mondays indictment in georgia that might be the most karmically poetic. A black woman. To which his superfans respond by Showering Fani Willis with the n word. Trump and his 18 codefendants are facing rico charges, including Rudy Giuliani might be the worlds most ironic rico defendant ever given he made a name for himself as a u. S. Attorney prosecuting rico before he was major. His tactics helped earn giuliani as a reputation as a mob buster along with a, wait for it a rico pioneer. I do think that the work in my office and other parts of the Justice Department has changed the definition of the problem of crime in america. Because were going to have to attack it as a business, not just as individual crime. We have followed up with civil rico cases. There will be some point in the future we will destroy the power of the mafia. This georgia indictment is the first time rudy is being held accountable under these statutes along with trump and motley crue of alleged coconspirators. Giuliani and trump will be forced to face a jury in georgia, where rudy once made Public Comments falsely claiming to Election Workers committed ballot fraud. Tape earlier in the day of ruby freeman and Shea Freeman Moss and one other gentleman, surreptitiously passing around usb ports as if theyre viles of heroin or cocaine. I mean, its obvious to anyone who is a criminal investigator or prosecutor they are engaged in surreptitious what was your mom handing you . A ginger mint. I cannot say specifically what will take place. I dont know that it will disrupt your freedom and frae dom of one or more of your family members. You are a loose end. [ inaudible ]. That last part was publicist appearing to threaten poll worker ruby freeman. She was charged in the indictment with racketeering conspiracy to commit solicitation of false statements and influencing witnesses. Trump and his codefendants, some of whom have probably spent a lot of time chattering about Out Of Control Atlanta crime, are expected to be booked at the Fulton County jail, which, yes, will likely include a mug shot for trump. Natures healing. But in this case in particular its the rico charge thats drawing a lot of attention since it was enacted under title 9 of the Organized Crime Control Act in 1970 and signed into law by president richard nixon, the racketeering influenced and corrupt organizations act has been used to prosecute the hells angels motorcycle gang. To go after corporate scammers. And of course, mobsters. Again, led by then u. S. Attorney Rudy Giuliani. But all rico really is the commission by one or more people of multiple crimes in furtherance of a corrupt enterprise. The crime consists in basic terms of a bunch of people committing separate crimes to make an illegal plot happen. They dont have to be in the mafia. In the state of georgia, rico gives prosecutors a lot of flexibility to charge a group of separate individuals who worked together toward a common criminal goal. Da fani willis used it against gang members, rappers and teachers alleged to have run a Test Cheating Scheme and now trumps Election Theft, Election Theft gang, she has treated one Criminal Enterprise exactly the same as any other. An approach she shared when she became Fulton Countys top prosecutor back in 2021. And no matter if you are at the State Capitol or the slums, you will be held accountable if you commit a crime in my community. The Criminal Enterprise trump led in multiple states and that he announced on a recorded phone call in georgia, involves multiple players, from his corrupted Chief Of Staff to the kraken lady and john eastman and the chesebro guy who birthed the fake elector scheme and fake electors involved in the scam and kanye wests publicist tried to strong arm Election Workers. That is literally a group of people acting in a single conspiracy to pull off an illegal enterprise. Stealing an election, right, thats the enterprise. I mean, theyre all innocent until proven guilty, of course, but there is nothing about that enterprise that is less illegal than a group of educators inflating scores on students standardized tests. In fact, it is much, much worse. And if teachers should go to jail for breaking the law, then so should election thieves, which is exactly by da fani willis is forging ahead. Proposing a trial date of march 4th, 2024, for her case against trump and his associates. Willis also asked to Schedule Arraignments for the defendants for the week of september 5th. Joining me now is tim o. Brian, Senior Executive editor of Broom Bloomberg opinion, paul butler, msnbc legal analyst and georgetown law professor. Thank you for being here. Im in new york. Usually paul is next to me, this time its tim because im here in new york. I just want to go back to giuliani for a second since you know these characters all so well. I want to read you what the New York Times there was an Opinion Piece by one of his biographers, Andrew Curtsman and david holly what they wrote about rudy has become. They wrote this. Faced with the political irrelevance and collapsing client base that would accompany mr. Trumps defeat, in 2020, he seemingly made a faus yan bargain working to undermine democracy in order to save his career. I feel like it was a few years before that. What do you make of the fact that the rico guy is now the rico defendant . Well, its shakespearian in its dimensions because rudy was an evangelist about the rule of law in a very draconian way. And he used rico, i think, to great effect as we all know to go after the mob. The argument being that you could never touch the people at the head of the mob families because they were very good at insulating their own actions from their minions who went out there, soldiers out on the street, who did the crimes. Rudy said, it was very important to attach what lower level people did to the people orchestrating the schemes. Shades of donald trump much later. Everybody who has been pulled up in the January 6th Investigation has complained that they came there because trump asked them to come here. They thought they were doing what they had been told to do and yet trump wasnt being held accountable. The argument against rico being used by fani willis to go after trump is then that its overreach. That it should only go after organized crime. But the statute is meant to go against organized criminal conspiracies not necessarily just conspiracies that italian mobsters were targeted for. And in that context, one of giulianis biggest cases in addition to the Commission Case targeting the mobsters was wall street. He brought down draxle burr nam. He targeted michael milken, he cited the person in the financial web involving Insider Trading and financial fraud. He himself recognized that rico wasnt a statute that should only be used against people we traditionally call criminals. Fani willis, as you noted in your opening, has also adapted it to target other people including drug dealers. And so, i think that the idea that this thing that he created has now come around and snapped him up is both ironic but overdue because he sold himself out and he sold himself out to trump. Its a reminder how easily trump corrupts people in his orbit but he can only corrupt them if theyre corruptible. And rudy for all of his finger wagging over the years at people of color for being street criminals. Yep. Mobsters and any others for not following the rule of law has now shown hes just as base and just as craven as any number of the people he once prosecuted. You know, its funny he once said something to the effect of anyone in public lifelong enough will become corrupt. He prosecuted Public Officials elected officials for tax scandal he didnt have a problem expanding rico beyond mobsters. Because his view was that justice applied to anyone involved in a criminal act and anyone working with other people as part of a conspiracy. I think fani willis in her indictment was very careful to use the language from the state statue on rico to define why this was a rico case. Yeah. Let me read you, paul butler, what some of the wise guys are saying. The people who is this has been used against them, against mobsters are saying about Mafia Buster Giuliani getting indicted. This is ron kuby, will be familiar to any new yorker who has been following sort of the world of law there. This is what he said. He said it is just delightful hes a lawyer that represented the gambino associate The Sea Monster surge owe. Quote, it is just delightful to watch the guy who expanded rico prosecutions well beyond the original intent and did so grasping for the biggest headlines to watch him be indicted by the very law he championed. And, paul, i want to let you comment on that. Right, the fact that Rudy Giuliani knows better because he did use rico in an expansive way when he was a prosecutor and he understood that all it is a collection of people committing separate crimes toward one criminal end. You can apply that to nonmobsters, too. He understood that. How ironic is it, for you, as a former prosecutor, that he then walked right into a racketeering scam himself . Both crazy, ironic and Poetic Justice all at the same time because all of this is all of that, joy. You know, if we look at this georgia rico statute, which gives prosecutors even more power than the federal rico statute does, not a whole lot of republicans in georgia had a problem with that states rico law when prosecutors were using it how those lawmakers no doubt intended it, mainly to bring charges against young, black men accused of gang activity. Its only when the racketeers include white, privileged lawyers and when the Head Gang Banger is donald trump that rico is subject to criticism from conservatives. But Defense Attorneys have never liked rico, precisely because it provides so much power to prosecutors, particularly to whats near the small players in a Criminal Enterprise and subject them to big time. But fani willis is now using that power to go after the people she thinks are the biggiest, Thickiest Fish in the pond and now for some reason all these conservatives who were supposed to be champions of law and order, they have a problem with what fani willis is doing. Well, and i feel like, tim, it kind of goes for trump as well, right . Donald trump has lived a rarefied life of criming. I feel like hes been committing different crimes his whole life, not paying his taxes, obviously what he did to e. Jean carroll and their 25 some odd other women who claim something between Sexual Harassment and assault. Hes just been criming so long that there was just this sense, no one can touch me, right . Ive bought the da. I know but in this case, it does feel, to pauls point, like trump and his supporters, are finding out what its like to live in the real world where the rule of law applies to you. Thats what they relate to with him. They also feel that they are people who should not have the law apply to them and thats why they relate to him. Hes about to f around and find out because fani Willis Careette not. You go be booked at the jail, youll be treated like a other person, mug shot. Judge chutkan in the January 6th Case at the federal level f youre going to flap your mouth and talk in a way that might intimidate witnesses or influence jurors, im going to sanction you. This is a court of law. And you are subject to the same processes in this court as everyone else. You know, this idea that donald trump is has nine legal lives and that he has spent, you know, 50 of his 77 years dodging the law, theres a lot of myth around that because the reality is the last time he faced a serious federal investigation was when he and his father got investigated in the early 1970s for Racial Discrimination by the nixon administration. By their brooklyn and queens housing developments. And that didnt end up well for them. Every other time hes been in around a courtroom, its involved him essentially using a Weapon NiedsingLegal Process to intimidate people and taking his grievances to the press. This is the first time in his entire life that a series of very concerted efforts by talented and dedicated prosecutors with piles and piles of damning evidence in front of them the phone call to Brad Raffensperger is not really in doubt as to what trump was trying to do. The documents he took to maralago, theres not a lot of doubt about what was going on there. And his own cameras taped some of the things they did to hide those documents. And he cant take this to the media and win. Hes going to have to deal with this in a courtroom. Hes never been there before and i think hes scared. I think hes cornered and thats why hes lashing out on social media. Sure. I think his supporters like him because hes antiinstitutional in a way that pulls them into his orbit. His Working Class supporters. And they see this as the institutions going after their avatar. The reality i think is these narratives play out in court people are going to have to reconsider how he rolls and who he is. And he will have to deal with possible sentences. Yeah. And lets get to one piece of sort of new news, paul, 43yearold woman reporting from ryan riley from texas was ordered detained on wednesday after she was arrested for allegedly threaten the federal judge who is overseeing a criminal case against donald trump. Abigail joe faces charges of transmitting a threat to injure a person. She allegedly threatened Sheila Jackson lee and Lgbtq Community and threatening judge chutkan, calling her a slave, using the n word, saying we want to kill you. If trump doesnt get elected in 2024, were coming to kill you all, that sort of thing. I wont read anymore of it. We know that donald trump has now created a new term rigger which is now being used in lieu of a racial slew he posted on pretend twitter. Theyre going racial. Paul, theyre not hiding it. Now we have threats against the judge in the o