Like death valley, and palm springs where there is not a lot of topsoil to absorb that water. Flooding is going to be a major thing. Three inches is all you need for your car to float away. So people have these suvs and they think just dont it is not worth it. Stay home. Cancel your appointments. Watch it on tv and wait until it passes. We will see you next week. You too, my friend. There is news tonight regarding donald trump surrendering in Fulton County on charges related to his efforts to overturn the 2020 election in georgia. Nbc news is reporting that donald trump is expected to surrender on thursday, or friday of next week. That is right up against the deadline of noon friday, august 25th, which was set by the District Attorney fani willis. This is according to three senior Law Enforcement officials who stress and nothing is official yet. Plans are still being finalized. When he does turn himself in he will have his fingerprints taken, and for the First Time Since donald trump started wrapping up criminal indictments, he will have a mugshot taken. Abc news is reporting that Donald Trumps attorneys are expected to meet with officials from the District Attorneys office to negotiate the terms of his bond package early this week. He also has big news tonight into the investigation of the january 6th attack on the capitol. More than two and a half years after a mob of Trump Supporters stormed the capitol, after ten plus hours of investigation by the January 6th Committee, and Special Counsel, jack smiths investigators, we are still learning more about that day in d. C. I want you to take a close look at this video, and i want you to focus on the man in the red maga hat. The one that we have got spot shadowed for you. Now, you may not recognize him, but that is Kenneth Chesebro. A lawyer connected to the Trump Campaign who was allegedly one of the architects of the socalled Fake Electors plot. Chesebro appears to have been referred to in Special Counsel jack smiths indictment of the former president as unindicted coconspirator, number five. There he is. However, he was not so lucky and District Attorney williss investigation. He is one of the other 18 individuals who was actually charged along donald trump this week. Unindicted coconspirator. That was first unearthed, this story, by cnn and later confirmed by the New York Times. The man nbc news believed to be chesebro can be seen Walking Around the Capitol Grounds in the entourage of the prominent conspiracy theorist, alex jones. At no point in time does he appear to enter the capital itself. Lawyers for Kenneth Chesebro declined to comment when they were approached about the video. It is worth noting that when he was questioned by the house January 6th Committee about his whereabouts from december 2020, through the first week of january 2021, it seems like a simple question, chesebro pled the fifth. Chesebros the presence was at the capitol and it is important, it is crucial, because this represents the first known connection between the people who led the legal attempts to serve the election, and, sorry to subvert the election, and the rioters who were on the ground that day. In other words, the firewall between the suits and the boos appears to be breaking down thanks to Kenneth Chesebro. This is the first known connection between the two pro trump factions. Listen to this, from the New York Times, quote, until now there appears to be different there appeared to be different tentacles of the effort to keep mr. Trump in power, that had not overlapped. But mr. Chesebro hinted at those connections in an email exchange with john eastman. Another lawyer who was instrumental in the plan to pressure mister pence with the Fake Electors scheme. In late december, 2020, the two lawyers discussed how to get a case before the Supreme Court. Mr. Chesebro told mr. Eastman, as they discussed filing illegal action, that in terms of the highest court, the quote, odds of action before january 6th will become more favorable if the justices start to fear that there will be wild chaos on january 6th unless they rule by then, either way, and quote. That is a story. Joining us now, the former United States attorney and professor at the university of alabama law school. Jim kirschner is a former federal prosecutor and the host of the Justice Matters podcast. They are both msnbc legal analysts. Good evening to both of you. Joyce, tell me about this, we have wondered for a long time as these cases of the people who were in front of the capitol, and inside the Capitol On January 6th move forward, what the connections are and have been and were with those people on the other side of pennsylvania avenue. Those people who were scheming to overturn this election. Now, this guy, Kenneth Chesebro, yet another name that a whole lot of people did not know a couple of months ago it turns out that he was there on the ground on january 6th Walking Around. What do you make of it . It is an interesting place for a harvard educated lawyer to find himself on january 6th. And as a prosecutor, your job is to ask questions. This video makes me ask a lot of questions. The first one is whether or not jack smith was already aware of this. It seems likely that he may well have been ahead of the media on this one. And may have already sorted this out. But there are a lot of subsidiary questions here. Alex jones is in many ways a like the proud boys and oath keepers. The most violent elements on january 6th. So now that youve got him here youve got to ask those questions. Why is he there. Is there any sort of linkage between the lawyers that he is working with and the more violent elements. That is all on the table once you see this video. And then there is a final thing that i am curious about here, that donald trump tweet where he says be there, we will be wild in reference to january 6th. That repetition of the word wild that chose pro also uses. It makes you wonder what is going on here. I want to ask you about this whole business of cheeseborough and eastman talking about the Supreme Court and causing the court to act out of fear that there may be violence. That is outside the realm of the sort of thing that lawyers should be doing. Later in the show we will talk about all the lawyers who now need lawyers because they are indicted or unindicted conspiracy conspirators and these various charges. But that seems, i just hadnt thought about that as a legal strategy. Lets do x, the judges will fear violence and mayhem, and we will do something. It is sort of like lets take a legal hostages. It is such a Deep Perversion of the law, of the use of the court system, maybe if there is enough upheaval. If there is enough danger and potential harm to people that i suppose in and around the capital or more broadly across the United States, maybe the courts will buckle and will decide cases based on that fear, rather than based on the facts and the law and the president. I think that is deeply incriminating of guys like chesebro and eastman, and i do think this Cross Pollination that we now have between the insurrection, and the suits of the insurrection is a really interesting fact and it makes me wonder, when we see the likely next indictment by jack smith. The reason i say the likely next indictment is because jack smith, as we all know, informed the public that there are six coconspirators who committed crimes with donald trump, perhaps at the direction, and for the benefit of donald trump. The last thing that jack smith is going to do is inform us that the six individuals and that is why we will soon seen these boroughs and i did and it will be interesting to see if maybe, there will be charges on the capitol that day, he was in restricted areas, which may give rise to a relatively low level criminal charge. I want you to stick around, i want to bring in the discussion, Eric Swalwell of california, who was a manager in the second impeachment of donald trump. Good to see you, thank you for being with us. You are engaged in a civil suit with donald trump. Donald trump is in the business of charging him, he can do that, if he can get through all the papers, he can get through all the evidence, he just said that there is 11 and a half million pages of documents and the january 6th so he would like this to be postponed until 2026. Interesting choice of date. It is after the election of 2024. And he is hoping that he will be president again. So we had all this stuff about how you couldnt really indict a sitting president. Then donald trump is no longer the president. And you cant apparently sue him or indict him or prosecute him based on how hes too busy running for president. Once he becomes president again then you cant go after him for being president again. It seems like a legal strategy for him. Justice is no longer sleeping on donald trump. This guy has been a stranger to accountability almost his entire life. He always plays on justices side of the field. And he defines the terms and too often in the past, i Think Prosecutors have flinched. That is not the case anymore. That is why i brought my suit, which is to make sure that he means accountability. That is why jacks mitt and other prosecutors are seeking accountability, as well. Heres the accountability, how it is all going to play, ill jump donald trump is going to get he always wants to try to convict people in the Public Square without giving them any due process. Hes going to get all the due process, hes going to get every protection under, law and whatever happens to donald trump, it is going to come from his peers. And that is why i think it is going to be so sweet when he needs accountability, that he will get the justice that he has never been willing to give to somebody else. What is your sense of your lawsuit and what is likely to happen with it . Well, we brought a lawsuit for what he did on january 6th, aiming a mob at the capitol, stopping and we won in the Federal District court. Of course, he appealed to the court of appeals and we are waiting for a decision now. And if we went there, we are expected to start getting discovery and evidence and much more than january six, or anyone else who has been able to get, because i am bringing this in my own personal capacity. So, we will not be roadblock by many of the privileges that donald trump has asserted and been successful with. Again, it is entirely about accountability for a man, for too long that has escaped it. You were an impeachment manager, you have a lot of information. The January 6th Committee got more information with more witnesses. We assume that jack smith used all that information to bring his indictment. This chesebro thing is intriguing to me. Theres been a lot of discussion about the fact that theres been a lot of low level people that have gotten through that court in washington and it was hard to make connections between the decisionmakers and the boots on the ground. What do you think about this . It is important that we dont just go after the hustle. We also go after the muscle. Glenn said the boots and the suits. Now you are seeing that jack smith is tying it all together. This is the greatest crime ever committed in american history. Against our constitution, against our democracy, against our viewers votes. And no other crime in america has had this many defendants and convictions. For the sake of where we go next, it is what we give to our children, every person who tried to steal the vote away from your viewers must be held accountable. Joyce, one of the things that we heard is that jack smith succeeded again, over the objections of the trump team, and getting access to Donald Trumps twitter account. Clearly, those of us who lived through it, you know, we woke up and went to sleep with Donald Trumps tweets. But his notorious for not really emailing, and not really texting himself, and putting a barrier between him and everyone else. What do you believe jack smith gets from Donald Trumps twitter account . It is hard to know if you actually got valuable evidence that it was a step that you have to take for all the reasons that you just set out, ali. We know that trump didnt tweet, did he communicate using direct messages . Where their Draft Messages in their . Did trump have another account that he was using under a different name that could be shunned to have communications or even participate in some of the rightwing messaging . A lot of interesting information that you can get by executing this sort of an order to get information from twitter. And also, Gee Location Data On Where Trump was when he was accessing his accounts. What sorts of devices were accessing them, where their people other than trump accessing, were there any internal communication between those people . So it could be a treasure trove, you could also come up empty handed as a prosecutor, you have to make the attempt. Let me ask you about whether it is congressman swalwells suit or whether it is judge cannons case or judge chutkans case or the case in manhattan. What are these judges have to think . In theory, they all want to be fair, they all want to be fair in all of their cases. But everyone is looking at this. And there is a political argument being made by donald trump, day in and day out, about how this is politicized and he has got a campaign to run. How do they make decisions about delaying, giving everybody enough time for discovery, and being as fair as they can knowing that the eyes of the world, the legal world, the entire world well be on every one of their decisions and moves . I believe that they are all going to preside fairly, impartially, and independently. But i have to say in all honesty, i have some concerns with judge aileen cannons track record. Once you have an Appellate Court rule that you abused her discretion and in essence, did something that the law did not allow, and you did it to the extreme benefit of not just the litigant, but the litigant who gave you the Lifetime Appointment to the federal bench, i have concerns there. I hope she rallies, and i hope that she shows herself to be an independent, fair, and impartial jurist. I think that most of these judges will let all of the white noise roll off and they will sought the wood in front of them. The biggest challenge, i think, is one of scheduling. Because when you have so many pending cases involving largely one defendant, it becomes an extraordinary challenge. When i was prosecuting in d. C. , i would often have defendants with multiple cases, and what sometimes would happen is the Defense Attorneys would play one case against another. They would say, you know what . Im too busy over here to really prepare for the child over their, and then they would go into the other courtroom and say i am too busy over there to prepare for the trial over here. I think that all of the judges will have to keep a close eye on donald trump and his legal team to make sure that there are no games being played on the scheduling front, and i very much look forward to see which of these trials is the first one to actually go, if i had to guess, i would say that it is likely to be the one that is being presided over by Tanya Chutkan in washington d. C. , i suspect, i know soon enough, we will see an early 2024 trial in that case. Of course, she mentioned if he keeps on doing things that might look intimidating, for the jury or anyone involved in the trial, hes going to make shes going to make it happen faster so that there is less time for that. Carson swalwell, you know, given the reaction of your republican colleagues in the house, you would think that the only people threatened on january 6th were democrats. Because nobody is taking the exit ramp, no one is taking the opportunity of these indictments, i invite all of them to read it, if they havent done, so read both of them, if they havent done so, to say enough is enough. I do not want to continue to invest my political future in donald trump. But it is really just not happening. No, ali, in fact, my republican colleagues, every single Daydonald Trump did. They are just explicitly condoning, rather than condemning what he did. The American People know better. We are going to meet this test, we are going to meet it in our Justice System with the jurors and with the ballot box because this isnt about republicans versus democrats, this is democrats, republicans, and independents who are part of Team Community who believe in freedom, and who oppose fascism and lies and violence over voting. And Team Community is going to be a team chaos whether it is in a courtroom, or at the ballot box, we will meet this text. Good to see you, we always appreciate your time. Joyce and glenn, i want you to stick with me, we have a lot to get through for this hour. Up next, make attorneys, Get Attorneys. It started as a joke between any lawyer that decided to work for the pre