Wow, at maine, first of all, the phrase neal katyal at burning man. You had me at. That thats a. Show you throw an a trump attack, i mean, i need to know more, lawrence. Ill be watching. A phrase, the trump codefendant used, was, he called it a neopagan ritual. Which i think every good conjure is. Yes, and that is an accurate description of burning man. Ukoniq audit, yeah. Right, for once, a trump defendant. We also have Sheldon Whitehouse with us on the not he actually filed an official Ethics Complaint with the Supreme Court. Thats going to be really were hearing about. Indeed, what hes doing is important or for a democracy. Thanks, alex. Have a good show. Thank you. Well, if the general who commanded Donald Trumps army gets twin in two years in federal prison for what he did on general sixth, what does the Commander In Chief of Donald Trumps army get if he is found guilty . That is the question that Donald Trumps own Defense Lawyers are thinking about tonight and Breaking News that the leader of the socalled proud boys was sentenced to 22 years for his leadership of what prosecutors called Donald Trumps army. On january 6th. When Enrique Tarrio completes his to two year sentence, he will be one year away from eligibility for Social Security, retirement benefits. Unless republicans have raised the Retirement Age in the meantime. The 39yearold, Enrique Tarrio, will not be earning any Social Security credits while in prison and he can be absolutely sure donald trump wont be around to help out. When Enrique Tarrio gets out of prison. Today, Cuban AmericanEnrique Tarrio from florida got the longest sentence ever given to someone who committed crimes for the president of the United States. Two of the five men convicted in the 1972 order kate burglary to help president Richard Nixon were rightwing Cuban Americans like Enrique Tarrio. They were sentenced to 1 to 4 years and served 14 months and 15 months. Enrique tarrio has already served more prison time than that in his criminal past. He served 16 months in federal prison beginning in 2013, after that he became an informer, or help investigators prosecute his former associates. Tonight, if theres anyone out there still foolishly colin himself a proud boy who has not yet been accused of crimes, dont be surprised if Enrique Tarrio testifies against you someday. And the hope of reducing his 22 year sentence. Prosecutors ask for enhancements to tarrios sentence, including a Terrorism Enhancement they told the Judgment Tarrio should be sentenced to 33 years in prison. Judge Timothy Kelly recognized the technical electability of the Terrorism Enhancement. Judge kelly decided not to at that to the sentence. Judge kelly served as an assistant u. S. Attorney in the District Of Columbia for ten years. Then worked as a litigator and a measure washington law firm. He doesnt pick up a member of the Federalist Society 12 years after graduating from law school. And then he had the easiest possible ride to confirmation as a federal judge after serving on the staff of the Senate Judiciary committee as a counsel to republican chairman of the committee, chuck grassley. Chairman grassley got kelly known as a federal judge in the fourth month of the trump presidency. His confirmation sailed through the Judiciary Committee with a unanimous vote and got enough votes on the senate floor. Judge kelly had to know that if donald trump were to win the next president ial election, judge kelly would have absolutely no chance of being elevated by donald trump to the Supreme Court or the court of appeals, after issuing a 22 year sentence to the leader of Donald Trumps army. No future republican president is likely to reward judge kelly with a promotion. And sell, in a sense, judge kelly also sentenced himself today to a career its a Federal District judge who will probably never be promoted. In fact, most Federal District charges are never promoted. There are simply arent enough appeals openings to allow for that. And very few federal judges ever have to make a decision that they know will and even the theoretical possibility of being promoted. Judge kelly did that today. You can spend a lifetime in the federal courts and never see that happen. But this is the age of trump, full of things youve never seen before. Also today, there was a mystery followed by special Prosecutor Jack Smith and the case of United States all of America Versus donald trump. The motion could not say publicly what it is actually about. Quote, because the motion first to sensitive materials. Donald trumps criminal Defense Lawyers opposed chex mix motion. Chex mix motion says that the Trump Lawyers were trying to, quote, current litigation in this case to a halt, which is particularly in feasible given the pressing matter is before the court, including the defendants daily extrajudicial statements that threaten to prejudice the jury pull in this case, as described in the governments motion. So we do know that the motion we have not been allowed to see does contain sensitive materials, and a description of, quote, the defendants daily extrajudicial statement that threaten to prejudice a jury pole in this case. Judge Tanya Chutkan gave the defense lowers a tone of monday, september 11th, to file a secret motion in opposition and gave check smith a ton of September 13th to file his response, secretly to the defendants secret motion. Tomorrow, we might learn a lot, publicly. A lot about how the georgia prosecution of donald trump and his 18 codefendants might eventually be organized. The georgia judge assigned to the case, scott mcafee, will hold a hearing at one pm tomorrow on the motions by to Co Defendants to sever their cases from the rest of the defense. The two Co Defendants seeking to sever their cases are attorney Kenneth Chesebro and attorney sydney powell. To both sides and the case, judge mike if he wrote he intends to ask the District Attorney fani willis to provide, quote, a good faith estimate of the time reasonably anticipated to present the states case during a joint trial of all 19 codefendants, and alternatively any divisions thereof, including the number of witnesses likely to be called and the number and size of exhibits likely to be introduced. Leading off our discussion tonight is andrew weissman, former fbi general counsel hes a professor of practice at and what you law school, and the host of the prosecuting donald trump podcast. Also with us neal katyal, a former Acting Solicitor General and professor at georgetown law. He is the host of the podcast, courtside with neal katyal. They are both msnbc legal analysts. We will discuss burning man, neil, in the next segment. We wont have andrew suffer that, because i know how jealousy is about not havent been able to be there himself. Andrews already said hes coming next year. We are going to hold burning man gets its own segment, the neopagan ritual, well hear your defense in the next segment. But andrew, lets begin with what we saw in that sentencing today. 22 years for the person who was doing the work for donald trump, who was committing crimes for donald trump. Weve only seen people sentenced to prison for committing crimes for republican president s. Only two of. Tim and here we have to because whenever. If youre Donald Trumps defense counsel, you have to think about what kinds of pressures will be on judges and these cases against donald trump, if he is found guilty. Nald trump, if he absolutely. This is an incredibly long sentence. But notably, to your point, lawrence. This is somebody who is a leader of a group and he is not personally present ungenerous sixth. Now a manchin, having a conversation with a client, donald trump. Thats somebody who is the leader, for whom all of this was taking place. Who was also not personally present at the capitol, although he wanted to be at the capitol. And i think that the pressure that the judges will feel, who have seen so many people go to jail, rightly for the participation on january 6th, the idea that donald trump wouldnt do at least as much time as the leaders of the oath keepers and the proud boys, to me, seems unimaginable. Because thats what the law would require. I think this is a real sign of whats to come if donald trump is convicted. Honestly, that is something, he is presumed innocent at this point. The government has to prove a case beyond reasonable doubt to meghan a mystery. But the judge has scheduled this for march, signs are this will go, and in terms of those people who think that it is unlikely judge chutkan would send to donald trump to jail, i think this is a real sign that that is not the case. I find it very unlikely that judge chutkan will not view this as required by the rule of law, that somebody and Donald Trumps position, regardless of political party, regardless of politics, would need to be sentenced to at least as much time. Neal, we have donald trump facing a three similar prosecution to what tarrio faced, in the same court has, with a different judge. We just so a judge give 22 years. Judge chutkan may, if theres a guilty verdict in this case, she will have that responsibility. Whether it is present or some very, very strict version of Home Confinement, because of the publication of the former president , Secret Service protection, what it does. It just seems like, as andrea said, the pressure this puts on how the recent judges, and this was a trump judge. And it was a trudge appointed judge, who issued the sentence today, no one had issued peace and among other things would kind of pressure, it would put on the possible sentencing of defendant trump. Yeah, i think this is the longest sentence yet in the january 6th investigation, lawrence. It is more than any prior sentence. And the effect it was handed out by the judge, if its respected but very conservative judge, i think it tells you a lot. We shouldnt be surprised, lawrence, theres admitted kristen is on this. This is about as serious as a crime exists in the federal coat. So it should get the 22 years. But now, for judge chutkan, i think andreas point is exactly the right. One gets 22 year sentence, what should the sentence be for the leader of the leader . And its got to be 22 years plus, i think youre right lawrence to say it might not be served in jail, maybe some Home Confinement operation or something differently Secret Service complexities, but even there they are not sure about that. But that is an asterisk. At the end of the day, i mean, if its appropriate to me that one of the prominent leaders of this right gets a serious and lengthy conviction, it underscores the need to secure a conviction and lumpy tennis for the ultimate theater of the efforts to undermine our democracy. Andrew weissmann, turning to the trump case on this very issue, jack smith props prosecution on washington d. C. On the january six charges or more what can you, make if anything, of whats going on in the secret filing that we just saw one piece of it today. In which jack smiths motion says, i cant really say with this is about. What is your theory about whats going on here. Well, the thing that was unusual to me, theyre on a serious skirmishing by trump council. What the government said was that there is a procedural order, that the court has entered and the parties agreed to, where if sensitive material is referenced in a filing, that filing initially has to be made under seal. So, thats what the court, thats what the government did. They had a filing that referred to sensitive material, they explained because of that, the rules say it has to be filed under seal. And donald trump objective, presumably what the government hiding, they want to be transparent, it all seems crazy to me. Because thats like speaking to the court of public opinion. It seems like a needless fight to have with this judge. The other part of the filing that was interesting, the government did take an opportunity to remind the judge, which im sure shes aware of, that they put in the record, that donald trump continues to make inflammatory statements that could prejudice the jury. So, there clearly way laying the groundwork for future action by the court if this continues. Neil, them the piece of the motion that it become public, referred to Donald Trumps extrajudicial comments as something thats in the secret motion, along with the sensitive materials. Given, as andrew points out, there is a preexisting order about how to handle any motion with sensitive materials. Why is judge chutkan, why would judge chutkan add to this time period here. Shes basically throwing an extra week on to a process that her original orders already described how it should be handled. Yeah, but i think with this motion, at least the part of, it lawrence, were all guessing because we cant read it all, but i think what this motion is about is what andrew said at the end. This appears to be a warning by jack smith, and im really glad to see it, that there is a filing by him that says, defendants dont behave this way. You dont get to attack prosecutors. You dont get to tack witnesses. You dont get to attack judges. And try to poison the jury pool. Judge chutkan has already indicated, the best remedy, if trump is gonna do that, is to speed the trial timetable up. And make sure that that trial happens well before the 24th election. That, of course, is trumps nightmare scenario. Hes scared like heck that hes gonna actually have to face a jury of his peers before the election. So, when i read this motion, its basically a Shot Across The Bow by jack smith, at least, again, the part that we can read, that says, look, this guy is really stepping on your order. Were not necessarily, again, the parts we can read, asking for anything at this point. But were going to if this behavior continues. No defendant behaves this way. Andrew weissmann, one pm tomorrow, and judge mcafees georgia courtroom could be the most revealing hearing yet in District Attorney williss prosecution, the judge is gonna ask her for a realistic description of how she would handle the trial with all 19 defendants in the room together. Or how she would handle it in organized in the subdivided version of that. Two defendants in one trial, six defendants in another trial. Whatever. And how many witnesses there might be in each one of those different sub divided possible versions of the trial. This could be the most revealing look into fani willis s plans or her capabilities in bringing this prosecution. Absolutely. On the one hand, we have this removal proceeding, and so, thats one thing you have to keep an eye on as to one or more of these cases will go federal. In the same hand, on the other hand, you have whats going on in the state court, whether there will be one trial of 19 people. And when that will go, whether it will be october, for instance, whether its gonna be much later. So, it will be quite revealing as to what the judge wants to do. I mean, my own view, its kind of nuts, thats the legal term, for the idea of trying 19 people together. I think thats actually something thats not great for the prosecution. But its unclear exactly how the State Court Judge is going to divide this. We do have two defendants, as you mentioned. Ms. Powell and mr. Chesbrough, who wants to go on october. However, they dont want to go together, i doubt that will happen. You dont really get to choose exactly who your codefendants are. But exactly how the state will say they want to try the case, and how the judge will carve it up, at the state level, is still very much an open question. And well probably get some idea tomorrow, that the judge may not rule on that. So, its a little bit of three dhs, we have to see how the state judges general in this, and then we have to wait what can happen with the removal petition. Because some part of the case, or a huge part of the case, may go federal. So, lots to be waiting for in terms of how this gets tried. Even if it does go federal, or some of it goes federal, what District Ernie Willis says tomorrow about the way she would organize a divided prosecution will tell us a certain amount about how it might work on the federal version of the trial to. Andrew weissmann, thank you very much for helping start off our discussion tonight. Neil katya, please stay with us. After the break, we hope you can explain what you are doing this weekend at what one trump codefendant calls a neopagan ritual. Neil, were gonna get a couple of minutes to think it over. If theres and that you want to confess, well, youll handle it the way you handle. Well be right back with n