Lawrence. Good evening ali. And i am wondering if Dianne Feinstein looking down from above and heard it Claire Mccaskill saying we only had just one, i wonder what her response would. Be a caveat. Respect they just had one martini over two hours. There you go. If they had more than that, thats fine as well. They were entitled to it. They were ground breakers. Alex, have a good weekend. You too, ali. With 25 hours to go, the countries on the verge of another republicanled shutdown of congress. Kevin mccarthy has no plan. And the snow plan thats likely to stop the government from grinding to a halt. The chaos caucus, not the speaker, is in charge tonight. The house has gone home. Republicans have scheduled votes for tomorrow, but so far none of the votes that they have held have brought us closer to any resolution. So, barring some unexpected innervation intervention, at 12 01 sunday, some important parts of the government will shut down entirely, and essential parts of government will be carried on by millions of federal employees and military personnel, without pay. The shutdown will happen, because a fully republican controlled house has failed in its constitutional responsibility to fund the government. This isnt a debate between republicans and democrats. Its a fight between donald trump and everyone. Donald trump pushed this shut down. If you thought for a second that the extremist republicans who are voting down their own speakers bills are doing so on the basis of some strong moral belief or ideological position, youd be wrong. Donald trump who, by the way,s oversaw the longest shutdown in u. S. History, is, once again, openly rooting for the government of the United States to shut down. 21 republicans, who care more about not getting primary than about serving the american people, are doing his bidding. This week donald trump posted on his social media site, quote, unless you get everything, shut it down. The New York Times reports, quote, a person close to mr. Trump acknowledged that his support for shutdown was providing encouragement to mccarthys adversaries. Representative matt gaetz of florida, a leading supporter of a shutdown, said in an interview that one of mr. Trumps posts on social media endorsing a shutdown may have had an influence on some members of congress. Quote, i think there might have been a few people on the fence persuaded by that statement, end quote. Mr. Gates continued, i view that is consequential. The chaos caucus is following donald trump into another Government Shutdown. They are still following him, even after he made the outrageous comment that the highest ranking Military Leader in america, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, the four star general, mark milley, should be executed. The kind of talk, about killing people who are not sufficiently loyal, is a long way beyond lock her up. Its more along the lines of hang mike pence, which Trump Supporters also chanted and donald trump never disavowed. But none of this is a bridge too far for Kevin Mccarthy. None of it is, in fact, enough for Kevin Mccarthy to say, enough or to say what General Milley said in his retirement speech today in arlington. I didnt take an oath to a tribe, tour legend, to a king, or queen, or a tyrant, or a dictator. Or a wannabe dictator. We dont take an oath to an individual. We take an oath to the constitution, or we take an oath that this is america and we are willing to die to protect it. On january 20th, 2017, donald trump took an oath to the constitution, an oath he breached when he tried to overturn a legitimate election that didnt go his way. That is why he is indicted on charges trying to overturn the election and to stay in power. But here is the thing. Every single house and Senate Lawmaker also swore an oath to defend the constitution. The republican senator mitt romney announced his retirement and told journalists a large part of my party doesnt believe in the constitution. While biden and milley were at arlington, donald trump was trying to republicans in california and he joked about speaker emeritus Nancy Pelosis 82 year old husband paul having had a Skull Bastion with a hammer by an attacker who had a political motive, an attacker who wanted to, nowhere is nancy . Don trump joked about that. He crossed yet another line, and his audience laughed. And with their laughter trumps power grew. When trumps Agents Of Chaos again defeated Kevin Mccarthys stopgap bill in congress today, trumps power grew. Trumps power goo each time each one of the 14 times Kevin Mccarthy failed to get enough votes to win the speakership. Yes. Congress is rudderless. The Republican Party is rudderless. But on trumps not rudderless. He knows exactly what he is doing. He has been tried many times in fort in history to great effect. Hes made his goals clear. The destruction and elimination of critics, opponents, in those who do not do his bidding. He feeds off of his power and will use it to silence or harm anyone who does not fall into line, anyone who stands in his way. Trumps menace is growing. Kevin mccarthys flounders. Oh trump, twice Impeached Quadrupling indicted defeated fraudulent and failed former president is, in fact, the Puppet Master for republican extremists in the house, and he is using them for his own purposes, to run sham impeachment hearings, to strengthen Vladimir Putin putin and americas adversaries, to weaken america. Kevin mccarthy could be a hero today if he chose sanity, democracy, and good government, and joined with Hakeem Jeffries to keep the government, even if it cost him his speakership. Because doing so would likely cost Kevin Mccarthy his bigger chip. But to do that, he would have to remember his oath who constitution of the United States of america and to those out there working to defend it for us. If the house fails to fulfill its most basic function, it feels to Fund Government by tomorrow, we will have failed all our troops. Its an absolute dereliction of duty. An absolute dereliction of duty. Joining us now is democratic congressman Eric Swalwell of california, a member of the house judiciary committee, and Impeachment Manager in the second Impeachment Trial of donald trump. Congressman, its good to see you again. Again, under stupid circumstances, though. Theres really no valid reason why you and i should be having this actual conversation. This is not an ideological debate. Its nothing. Its nonsensical, because donald trump has told a bunch of republican chaos agents to shut the government down. Maga republicans tonight are the failures. They have failed to govern. They have failed to fund. And in their failure to govern and fund, they failed to protect. And ali, because their number one priority is donald trump, the cost of that priority, the expenses we all pay, is that the troops will not receive their paychecks, the cops will not receive their paychecks, the border will not be secure, but the house will, again continue to operate on behalf, entirely, of don trump. They are the failures. The country will continue to fail until the keys of govern bitter turned over to someone else. To watch and, Eric Swalwell, to what end of these republicans, who knows how many, maybe a couple dozen, why are they doing this . The bill doing it for donald trump and theyre doing it because they are scared. And frankly, they dont have the confidence in themselves that they could find another job. Its crazy to say. That i would hope that i serve with people who have given up better, higher paying jobs to do this job for the country, but they are afraid that if they speak out on behalf of the country instead of a criminal, donald trump, they would be primary in a reduced their job. They find themselves in this position. Kevin mccarthys individual one in this case because, as you pointed out of the top, Kevin Mccarthy could put a bill forward that could fund the government, one of his 80 votes in the present in the senate in the bipartisan way, we wouldnt see troops lose their paycheck, he could do that with democratic votes. But hes afraid he would lose his job. So he with his own job ahead of millions of others, whose jobs will be at risk in fewer than 30 hours. Lets underscore that. There are ways in which Kevin Mccarthy can make up for his, the two dozen or so, whatever the number it is, it is ranks, who will not, apparently, do anything. They will not compromise on anything by talking to Hakeem Jeffries and getting democratic support. I spoke to members of congress, democratic members of congress, and republican members of congress, who say that is probably a good outcome for the country. As you said, millions of people will continue to get paid for their work, if that happens. Kevin mccarthy will probably be out of a job if he tries that. But who wants a job where you are beholden to these chaos agents . And again, frankly, if you really want to get in the weeds, and i know your viewers, they know the weeds, they know these issues, Kevin Mccarthy, could put this forward as he did when we paid americas bill and lifted the debt ceiling, republicans these chaos agents, they dont have a plan b. They just want to see everything burn. He would be more confident, stronger speaker if he did that, because they would realize there is no plan b. But because he lives in fear, because he sees shadows every day and because he sees his own job as more important than anyone else, is we are going to suffer through this shut down. I have to ask you about what seems to be an escalation. I cant believe were talking about an escalation in Donald Trumps rhetoric. But the talk about General Milley, i think he is called the Parent Company of my employer treasonous as well, and then i dont know if you bought a gun or didnt buy a gun in the other day and then they are talking about paul peluso. I never know that there is another bridge to cross with donald trump, but apparently continues to cross bridges and no one stops. Kevin mccarthy doesnt say enough. He doesnt say, he couldve said this on january 7th. He did say it after january six, but then he backtrack and hasnt said it since. Donald trump and maga republicans prefer violence over voting. Thats because they are bankrupt of any ideas. They just want to own the libs. Thats not a principled approach here. So they just rely on violence. They had a failed insurrection. They are the failures. Donald trumps best day, ali, was in november 2016, and he has been a loser ever since. He lost the midterms. He lost the white house in 20. And lost the senate in 2020. We kept the house. They lost the chance to have the big red wave in 2022. We have won all of these special elections. So right now people are on the side of competence over chaos. Theyre on the side of community over cruelty. And as awful as this is right now, if we understand we have the ability to organize and mobilize as we go into the next election, we will continue to win, and they will just forever be the failures. Eric swalwell, thank you for joining us, as always. Joining us now is jennifer rubin, msnbc political analyst, host of the podcast jan Jennifer Rubins green room. , and an America Scholar at the American Enterprise institute. Good evening to both of you. Youve been looking at this stuff for a long time. Government shutdowns have happened before. They are usually clearer in terms of ideological differences and things that have to be done. I dont know if you think im overstating the point, but this potential Government Shutdown is actually just chaotic. Its not about anything sensible. Youre absolutely right, ali. I came to washington a 1969 and worked on the hill. In all of those years i have never seen a speaker as craven or week is Kevin Mccarthy, and he has basically been beholden to this group of Nihilist Lunatics since he sold whatever there was of this soul to get the speakership back at the beginning of this congress. There is no plan. I would say, ali, that what hes got to hope now is, either that the democrats bail him out by bringing up a discharge petition, something that people are going to spend a lot of time looking at, and get a few republicans where he can say, i couldnt stop this, or that we have a shutdown that gets so bad that more of his members say, will protect you and hope that he can survive that vote. But we havent seen anything like this. Its not nearly, even, what we saw when Newt Gingrich brought the government to a halt and it backfired on him under bill clinton, or even what happened when trump was president and the republicans controlled things. This is worse. This is an interesting point. Because when norman talks about Newt Gingrich, gingrich still talks about that with some pride. He led something that people believed was an actual revolution. This isnt a revolution. This is literally a bunch of people whose motives were not really clear on. They dont seem to be deeply ideological. They dont seem to be moral. Eric swalwell says im looking to keep their jobs. I havent heard a better argument. Theres really no reason to continue to be thrall to donald trump. There was no reason as of a weekable ago. But given the several things don trump has just done in the last week. Theres an exit ramp every 12 hours with donald trump. This is what authoritarians to, this is what a neofascist party does, which, is they disable democracy, first of all, because democracy is functioning, who needs them, and secondly they deploy violence in the threat of violence. Thirdly they break all kinds of social norms of decency, of respect, of civility. Fourth, they essentially claim to speak for the people, the average person, but of course theyre taking away Government Services that the average person needs. They are taking away paychecks from government workers. But they dont care because they are an anti democratic authoritarian party. And donald trump is their cult leader. They have really given up on democracy. Mitt romney was absolutely right. The only other question i have is why he or anyone else remains in the Republican Party. The only decent thing, the only patriotic thing at this point, is to join with democrats either officially or unofficially to enable government to function and get us Back On The Road to democracy. So i do blame the crazies in the maga caucus, but frankly its the socalled moderates, there are no moderates responsible. It anytime they can pull the plug on this. Kevin mccarthy could pull the plug. They could pull the plug. But they have been manhandled and frightened of their own shadow and they live in fear that they will be drummed out as Congressman Swalwell said. Who would ever employ these people . They are probably right, if they ever got thrown out of congress, would you give them the responsibility for feeding your fish or anything more important than that . These people are absolute lunatics. So we find ourselves in this conundrum because, unfortunately, from gerrymandered districts come these crazies, and from donald trump becomes a party that is no longer willing to govern democratically. So norm, this is the difference between when you got to washington and now. The districts and some of these people come from, there is no danger that if they shut the government down the people in a districts, generally speaking, are gonna be up in arms about that. They have nurtured and Anti Government view amongst their constituents, they are products of, it and for a lot of those moderate republicans that Jennifer Reuben talks about, who she knows very well, whom you know and work with, who i interviewed, this becomes tough. The what to do about it becomes tough, because these are the moments when normal republican would have to say this has nothing to do with the ideological underpinnings of my republicanism. It has nothing to do with conservatism. It is nothing to do with government restraint. This is just Something Else entirely. But the question about what to do about it stymies a lot of people. You know, ali, when i came here, and for many decades, there always were a few people who were way off on the fringe. But we have leaders who Work Together in both parties because they cared about the institution and the country to keep things under control. And you had a lot of members who at least understood that they had a larger responsibility and took their oaths seriously. What jim said, i think, is really important. Its not just the weakness of the leadership. It is that there is a complete lack of moral courage or spine among the Rank And File members. I dont think its just about losing a job or losing in a primary. I think it is also fear for their lives and the lives of their families. When trump what trump has unleashed the threat of violence, what we saw with Brad Raffensperger and his family, what we have seen elsewhere, these are people who are scared to death. Liz cheney said