Reporting, that the Special Counsel immunized mark meadows. We have a sense of as another trump lawyer flips in court. If i knew that what i knew now, i would have declined to represent donald trump in the post election challenges. And the indicted ex president kneecaps the latest republican bid for speaker for not being loyal to trump. I saw him or, hes finished. Hes not a supporter. Tonight, speaker emerita nancy pelosi on all of the above than inside the courtroom where Michael Cohen testified with his former boss in co. And as bombing continues and hundreds remain hostage, what we know about why a Ground Incursion into gaza still has not happened. Dont, dont throw fuel on the fire. When all in starts right now. Good evening from new york, i am chris hayes. Tonight, we have a report that mark meadows, the Chief Of Staff to donald trump on january six has been granted immunity from Special Counsel jack smith and exchange for his testimony, the federal investigation into the ex president s attempt to overturn the 2020 election. The Summer Grand Jury indicted trump of four Felony Counts including conspiracy to defraud the United States. Now, according to abc news, meadows has spoken with Special Counsel jack smiths team at least three times this year, including once before a federal grand jury. Meadows pulled smiths team that he warned trump that his claims of voter fraud are baseless. Well have much more on that for that Significant Development for the fourtime currently indicted president in Manhattan Court today facing a 250 Million Dollar civil fraud trial, while this mountain of legal peril keeps growing, donald trump proved that the power of the Republican Party in congress has not waned. This afternoon, in the midst of those legal proceedings, which he showed up for, for some reason, the ex president took time to intervene into the race for speaker and through the house into chaos yet again. Trump appeared to single head of the sink is parties later Speaker Designate two weeks into the ongoing and deepening Republican Leadership crisis. It began today, the 21st day at the speaker of a hopefuls battling out for gavel, after the republican second Speaker Designated dropped out last week, that was jim jordan. A front runner emerge from the pack after a series of votes, you may not have heard of, the majority went with tom emmer of minnesota, making him to number three for leadership. Hes probably best known as succeeding the republican firebrand Michelle Baekeland in her own district. He spent several years at the house supporting Donald Trumps decisions 90 of the time. Hes one of more than 100 republican lawmakers this sign on to a Lawsuit Contesting the 2020 election results. Theres one big fall and tom emmers maga credentials. On that fateful day, january 2021, he voted to certify the election, to uphold americas constitutional republic. Of course, that is a red line for donald trump and this faction of the party. After five rounds of voting, closed door Conference Meetings, emmer be people like johnson of louisiana, by 27 votes. A third Speaker Designate in less than three weeks. And two hours, donald trump on a break from his fraud trial began attacking him. In a truth social post, trump called emmer, republican in name only, adding that he never expected the power of the trump endorsement with the breath and scope of magna. The ex president questioned the speakers loyalty, saying he was pro trump all the way but who can never be sure. He included a warning that voting for emmer would be a tragic mistake. Trump followed that up with a verbal takedown directed at the cameras at a quick gathering in the courthouse. Tom emmer, looks like he is finished. He was a rhino, looks like he is finished, well see. You never know. That was pretty much it for tom emmer. A hour later, a sudden three hours after winning that coveted nomination, three hours as a Speaker Designate, three hours digging that he was the speaker of the house of the in that estates, emmer dropped out of the race for speaker. Sources told nbc news that trumps comments, specifically the truth soal post, made it an uphill climb for the congressman. He had to flip about 200,000 votes in his favor. If you have another vote, he would lose, which is part of why he decided to drop out and settle letting it track. Out so, with only a few sentences, donald trump saying tom emmers chances of holding to gavel, to sake sank his omission of the speakership of mccarthy as well as the republicans to replace kevin mccarthy, Steve Scalise, and then he gloated about it. What i said must have had an impact, because as soon as the endorsement did not go particularly well by them, as you have heard, maga in the Republican Party, they want to see i disagree with them, i soon had a big impact. Thanks to Derek De Facto leader, the republicans are back to square one. At this very moment, the republican Conference Meeting again. What in mere, meeting after meeting after meeting for the same people, the same process, with no way out, they are going to vote on another new Speaker Designate. Okay, good luck, have at it. In the meantime, the house is about to enter its fourth week of paralysis. The chaos has serious repercussions, but we have no idea how it will end. Sahil kapur is nbc news senior Political National reporter. He has been closely following the speaker chaos, and he joins me now. Sahil, every day starts oneway and ends another. Did you see the emmer drop out coming . Well, chris, it certainly matched what happened with the previous two nominees, so it was a fair bet that emmer will likely meet the same fate as the fiscally said jim jordan. There are 221 republicans, they need 217 to elect a speaker, and right now they are back at it, holding on a candidate for behind closed doors. It began with six candidates and is down to five. One has already dropped out, and the odds on favorite to be the next nominee for the republicans for speaker is mike johnson, currently the vice chair of the republican conference, first elected in 2016, hes from louisiana, does not have that much of a national profile, and House Republicans are expected to vote as early as sunday potentially, as early as this hour to pick their next nominee. From there, it would be on that person to find the 217 votes. Ive got to tell you, chris, we met with a number of republican lawmakers today, there are layers upon layers upon layers of bad blood that developed over these past few weeks or so, starting with the motion to evict kevin mccarthy. His allies are still mad about that. But johnson will have to do with all these other guys failed to do. While this might ultimately come down to who told her 17 institutionalist republicans republicans a police, not who interpreters are mad about the they like the most, because the people that they like most way that Steve Scalise was clearly arent getting the job done. In the meantime, they have a November 17th Deadline to fund treated. They felt that he was stabbed in the back. The government or face a now farright allies of jim jordan agreed that they are accused of bullying tactics, when all of them were engaged in those tactics. They took that out on tom shutdown that will get aid to israel and ukraine piling up, Biden Administration supplemental that will include strategies to contain china. The other day, chris, to keep in mind, and there is a lot of talk about the small majorities, but your next guest, nancy pelosi, this is an identical small majority with four votes of a margin, and she did not have to face emmer today. But johnson will have to do with all these other guys failed to do. Any of these problems. There is a real difference between the two parties here. While this might ultimately come down to who told her 17 republicans a police, not who republicans are more willing to tolerate the chaos on the goals that democrats are, chris. Thank you very much, as sahil just, said congresswoman nancy pelosi served in San Francisco for 35 years. She is the former democratic speaker at the house, flip the house for 20 years a speaker, nancy pelosi joins me. Now its good to have you here. I guess my first question, for someone who started in politics from the time you were they like the most, because the people that they like most a child. Clearly arent getting the job done. In the meantime, they have a November 17th Deadline to fund your father was the mayor of the government or face a shutdown that will get aid to israel and ukraine piling up, Biden Administration supplemental that will include strategies to contain china. The other day, chris, to keep in mind, and there is a lot of talk about the small majorities, but your next guest, nancy pelosi, this is an identical small majority with four votes of a margin, and she did not have to face any of these problems. There is a real difference between the two parties here. Republicans are more willing to tolerate the chaos on the goals that democrats are, chris. Thank you very much, as sahil just, said congresswoman nancy pelosi served in San Francisco for 35 years. She is the former democratic speaker at the house, flip the house for 20 years a speaker, nancy pelosi joins me. Now its good to have you here. I guess my first question, for someone who started in politics from the time you were a child. Your father was the mayor of baltimore. You know politics are very well. Are you surprised it has gotten this bad over th and i first twhat i learned vthat is always really importan, and th be somethin the otheram i politics, but i do think tha it is surprising that the republicans do not honor the Oath Of Office to protect and defend the constitution of the United States, to honor the institution in which we serve and respect the obligation that we have to the American People to get the job done for them. So, whatever differences we may have, and we all have our differences in politics, within our party and visavis the other party, at some point, you have to come to a decision as to how you are going to get the job done. You weigh the equitys. I care about this, i care about that, but do i care about the American People the most . Do i care about my Oath Of Office. Do i respect the institution in which i serve. That should without any of the other differences that we have within our parties and congress. I want to follow that up with a little bit of shop top by observers as one of the most effective leaders of our time. You saw sahil talk about the resentments that have been built, people are mad, people after each round, there is some new faction, how do you go about on the democratic side, where i think there is this governing vision, ditching those factors together, what would be your approach of a leader that rises to the occasion and tries to get people over the sense of feeling angrier or snapped . I want to follow that up with a little bit of shop top by observers as one of the most effective leaders of our time. You saw sahil talk about the resentments that have been built, people are mad, people after each round, there is some new faction, how do you go about on the democratic side, where i think there is this governing vision, ditching those factors together, what would be your approach of a leader that rises to the occasion and tries to get people over the sense of feeling angrier or snapped . I would say one word, which would define it all, respect. Respect which leads you to build consensus, to come to a place where people weigh the equities. As i have said before, come to a conclusion that, for this vote at this time, this is the right thing for our country. I also accept any compliment on behalf of my House Democrats do have the courage to make some of the difficult decisions that are needed to come to consensus on the particular vote, and to have another debate another day, but not try to win every fight every day. Pick your fights carefully, respect your caucus and build consensus. By the way, i was down to two votes, dante to. I was down to two. Yes, and we never saw anything like this, as many people have remarked upon. One of the things that happened today, which seems to be really, part of this, i find sort of entertaining. Its sort of funny to watch. Something that is darker to me is the fact that tom emmers vote to certify the election, and any vote to certify the election, uphold the constitutional republic, is currently a red line for donald trump personally and the maga faction. I wonder what you think the implications are for the country and for the house if that is the case, if that is a Disqualifying Vote . Lets just look at today. Today, you had the former president of the United States in court, his chief chief, as he called himself in his book, mark meadows, saying that he told the president that he was wrong about the election, least that is what is represented it in the press. The president s chief is getting immunity for what he has to say about what the president knew about the election, and you have republicans in congress listening to a president in court, his own Chief Of Staff is saying that it was wrong, and they are using that as the basis of how they go forward. What i learned from thes to the republicans in america, take back your party, the grand old party, a great party that made such a constitution to our country, with the great leadership and so many ways. Again, who am i to be advocating for a strong Republican Party, but it is what our country needs in addition to a strong democratic party, whatever party that people put out there. But not to have a cult to really effectively elect a thug as the manifestation of the Republican Party now. The same day that he is in court, his chief staff asked for immunity and they are following the lead of the person whom his Chief Of Staff is asking for immunity to tell the truth about. Something is wrong with this picture, and i just think if we can get over this, and republicans can be their true selves, their conservative selves, not the fringe element of the spectrum of where you are in terms of the role of government. They dont believe in governments, understand that. This, to them, its not any break in the action. They dont want any action. This is it. This is like glory, hallelujah. They dont seem in a rush. Theyre mad at each other. I want to ask you about one of the pressing reasons that there is a Government Shutdown happening, and as the president announced in that primetime speech, an aid package to ukraine and israel. Those are the pressing concerns for policy. I want to ask about the israel portion of that. We talked about some of the internal factions of the Republican Party. For the democratic party, there is widespread consensus support for the aid package, but there are two dozen members calling for a ceasefire and pop the pop concern for escalation, and what it will mean from a humanitarian and strategic level. I wonder if youre having inter caucus conversations about those concerns, if you share those concerns, and where you think the party goes in the next step of this very difficult situation . First, let me say that our priority right now is to get the hostages freed. I thought that what Secretary Blinken said today at the ignited nations, calling for a humanitarian pause in Military Action so that we can try to find a more peaceful path, especially right away, to get more hostages free, not just american, but that is our responsibility, of the hostages freed. This cease fire, i think the humanitarian pause is the way to go. Look, what hamas did was barbaric in israel. It was barbaric, outside the circle of civilized human behavior. If it happened to your family, you would want justice. I am not talking about revenge, i am saying justice. So there has to be some other place we go instead of saying lets have a ceasefire. We had a ceasefire in may, that was broken by hamas on october 7th. Lets remember that. There may be a few votes in the caucus that will not support the package, but by and large, it will be overwhelmingly supported. We just have to get a speaker on the republican side, they won, they got the confidence of the American People, no, they should show that theyre worthy at the confidence by at least electing a leader, a speaker, so that we can conduct a business of congress. That includes coming forth with this package and then keeping government open after that. But to your point, i think that there may be a few votes against, and some of those votes have been vocal, but overwhelmingly, there will be support for it, on the democratic side. The order of operations here requires a speaker of the house before anything of that happens. At least the way that the rule is currently constituted. Who knows what tomorrow will bring, congresswoman and speaker america. Its a pleasur