Good day. Im Chris Jansing live at msnbc headquarters in New York City. Could the war in gaza break what had long been considered unbreakable. The alliance between the u. S. And israel being tested as never before with Prime Minister netanyahu openly defying President Biden and pressing ahead with plans to invade the Southern City of rafah. Biden called it a red line. So what happens if netanyahu crosses it . New jersey senator robert men den dez and his wife back in court today pleading not guilty to more federal charges. At the heart of the newest allegations, whether they tried to hide an alleged Bribery Scheme even after the feds were already on to them. The prosecutor who described President Biden as an elderly man with a poor memory set to testify on capitol hill tomorrow. Will the hearing undo the president s attempts to put worries about his age to rest . We begin now with the growing split between the u. S. And israel. Unlike anything in the long and strong history of that alliance. The rift has been escalating for weeks, but reached a new level when President Biden told Msnbcs Jonathan Capehart that an israeli Invasion Of Rafah was a red line, insisting the u. S. Will not tolerate another 30,000 palestinian deaths. A defiant Benjamin Netanyahu then told politico, well go there adding, you know, i have a red line. You know what that red line is . That october 7th doesnt happen again, never happens again. The hope had been that by today, the start of the holy month of ramadan, there could be a ceasefire and a return to religious customs. But in gaza, the tradition of fasting is now a way of life with millions battling desperate hunger. Families that used to feast together are now scattered and broken, with loved ones killed in the war and houses of worship reduced to rubble. As one person in rafah told the ap, you dont see anyone with joy in their eyes. Every family is sad, every family has a martyr. The uncertainty extends beyond the gaza strip to jerusalem, home of the al lax xa mosque. This ramadan, the security and tensions there are at a new high. Last night Israeli Police denied entry to scores of palestinian worshippers, even using batons to beat back the crowd at one gate. Were also closely watching a port in cyprus where an aid ship carrying 200 tons of food destined for gaza is expected to set sail. Nbcs Richard Engel is in cyprus. Also with us, msnbc host Jonathan Capehart and distributor david ignatius. Both jonathan and david are associate editors for the washington post. David, you wrote about this. Lay the groundwork for us. How wide is this bidennetanyahu divide right now . I think its becoming a significant breach in the relationship. The two have not gotten along really since the beginning of bidens presidency. Netanyahu has not visited the white house. Unusual given the closeness of the relationship. Biden went to israel when the war began in a gesture that was important to israelis, was a figure really helping unify israel. Netanyahu is not a popular Prime Minister now. I think as bidens anger over the level of palestinian casualties has increased and as hes come to believe with members of the administration that israeli plans to attack rafah could produce a catastrophe, a new humanitarian catastrophe, hes found the language to express his opposition more strongly. He did that in the interview with our colleague jonathan, and i think were now in a situation where were going to have to see exactly what biden means when he talks about a red line. How do you enforce the red line . Do you make the shipment of weapons conditional on israeli acceptance of limits . Do you begin to do things differently at the United Nations where theres ceasefire resolutions that the u. S. Has vetoed in the past . Those are the questions im watching now because i think thats going to tell us whether this is mainly rhetorical or whether its actually going to be backed by significant u. S. Action. John sthan, you did indeed get that exclusive interview with President Biden and you asked him about his relationship with netanyahu. I want to play part of that. Do you have a red line . For instance, would Invasion Of Rafah, which you have urged him not to do, would that be a red line . It is a red line, but im never going to leave israel. The defense of israel is still critical. Theres no red line im going to cut off all weapons so they dont have the iron dome to protect them. Theres red lines that if he crosses cannot have 30,000 more palestinians dead. So that brings us, jonathan, back to the question that david posed. What do you do . Do you deny some offensive weapons to israel . What do you do . What did the president say about that . Well, he did not answer any of the questions that david raised. Those would have been great followup questions for me if i had had more time. But when i asked the question about the red line, chris, it was specific to the Prime Minister. If you notice in his answer, he makes a distinction between american support, United States support for israel and his, President Bidens support of the Prime Minister, Prime Minister netanyahu. David did a very good job explaining the tensions between the two. From what i took from the president s response is that, when it comes to the iron dome and defensive weapons, weapons that israel needs to defend itself, those are off limits, but when it comes to other things, there might be an issue. If Prime Minister netanyahu does indeed order an Invasion Of Rafah, then i, too, will be looking to see how the president will then respond because the humanitarian crisis in Southern Gaza right now is acute. There are about 275,000 people who were living in the rafah area pre war. Since the war, 1. 5 Million People have moved down to rafah, into Southern Gaza because the idf said to the folks in the north, leave and go south. If there is an invasion, where are those people going to go . A humanitarian crisis that is acute will become astronomical, also, because egypt is building a wall on its southern border on its border with gaza. There is no doubt, richard and you and i have talked about this for weeks now, if not months about the of the nominal human cost that keeps getting worse. We see children dying of starvation now. Talk to us from the perspective of israel where that stands. It didnt seem there was any equivocation in the answers that weve heard from Benjamin Netanyahu, even with this aid ship in cyprus which i understand now is being held up because of ongoing talks. Theres, what, 200 tons of food thats supposed to be headed for gaza thats on it . Reporter so the aid ship is behind me. Im at the port right now or overlooking the port. Its not moving. Theres not a lot of activity around the ship. The World Central Kitchen which is providing the food, is organizing this delivery, says that its reedy to go. The ship is loaded. Its already been inspected. Customs officials did the actual inspections themselves. But with israeli supervision so the israelis know exactly what is on this ship. Its tied down and ready to go, but they dont have the final approval for it to set sail and travel about 200 nautical miles from here to the gazan coast. This is not going to be the solution. This one ship which is being described as a trial run is going to make very little difference. It is a very convoluted way of getting aid into gaza. Gaza is not an isolated place. Its right on the mediterranean coast. If you want to get aid into gaza, its easy to do, you just open the borders and send in the trucks. Right now gaza is ringing with trucks loaded with aid. Instead of doing that, were seeing these planes dropping aid. It is having very little effect. Each plane, each c130 takes roughly the same amount as a single truck. Thats happening on a daily basis, or almost daily basis to some effect. Sometimes the parachutes dont open. There was the incident a few days ago where five palestinians were killed, crushed by falling pallets. Eventually, assuming there is clearance given for this one ship, its going to take a long time for this ship to get there because its a very small vessel. Were talking about a ship dragging a barge, and that barge, which it will be towed, has 200 tons of food, canned meat and other food staples on board. Because its dragging a barge, because its still winter here and the seas are quite rough, its only going to travel about 3 miles an hour. Its expected to take three days to reach gaza. World central kitchen, the charity based in the u. S. Which is running this, they more or less on their own with their local partners in gaza are scrambling currently to build some sort of improvised pier to receive the barge. What will happen, as the ship goes, it will stop off the gazan shore. Then the barge will make the last bit of the journey to land on this pier if they can get it built in time, kind of a home made thing, and then that food would be distributed. We dont know how chaotic that scene will be. Thats why this is being described as something of a trial run. Aid agencies around the world say this is not the way to do it. This is not just inefficient, its almost cruel to the people of gaza who are starving currently, and there are trucks around them with aid. But instead of giving them the aid, a little is being dropped from the sky, sometimes lethally, and they are waiting for this very slow boat to gaza to get permission to finally set sail. Richard, thank you for that. David, i was reading a quote from someone on the ground in gaza who suggested that maybe if an invasion happens, it will just put them out of their ms. Stri. Thats how horrific the situation is for many of the people o n the ground. In the same interview with politico where Benjamin Netanyahu said his red line is to make sure october 7th never happens again, he also said he believes the war will be over in two months. Is that possible . Is it a sign he doesnt believe he has to negotiate, hes just going to go in and finish it off . What do you read into that, david . So i think youre probably right in that he wants to push on toward victory. His right wing hard coalition seek that as an outcome, i think the question that american officials are asking more and more is whether that is at all realistic. Israeli progress in this war has been surprisingly, given their professional military, their history in the past, has been surprisingly slow. The number of hamas fighters killed is such a small fraction of the total deaths deaths of palestinians in gaza are usually reported to be over 30,000, but the number of those who are hamas fighters is estimated in the thousands. Ive heard numbers like 5,000, the israelis in the past have said perhaps 8,000. Its a small fraction of the total. I think theres concern that with hamas dug into its tunnels, two months may not be realistic, and how much civilian damage would be done in those two months if thats how long it takes. We remember when the israelis went in hard to northern gaza, the terrible humanitarian cost of that, the disproportionate number of slins relative to Hams Fighters that were killed. I think biden is saying as clearly as he can, we, the United States, does not want to see repetition of that. If the price is delay in the israeli action, delay in their seeshging to destroy the military power of hamas, which i think most u. S. Officials still believe is a worthy goal. They think hamas has been terrorizing israel and gazans as well, i think a desire to delay that as opposed to having a chaotic and catastrophic end game of the sort that they fear netanyahu is planning, u. S. Officials really dont want to see that. Again, the question we talked about with jonathan, what is the Biden Administration going to do about it to make sure that President Bidens red line is enforced. David ignatius who is writing on this very complicated topic has been so ill lum nating, and Jonathan Capehart, thank you very much. Cant imagine two better people to have this conversation with, along with richard. Be sure to catch the saturday and sunday show with Jonathan Capehart week ends, 6 00 p. M. Eastern on msnbc. Prormer Prime Minister of israel Neftali Bennett will join my colleague katy tur at 3 00 p. M. Eastern on msnbc. President trump is trying once again to delay his Hush Money Trial. Why our legal expert says it might be too late. In Obstruction Of JusticeTo Wire Fraud, the charges piling up for new jersey senator bob menendez. What went down in that federal Court Arraignment today . Weve got it in 60 seconds. T its you love your bike. We do, too. Thats why were americas numberone motorcycle insurer. But do you have to wedge it into everything . What . I dont do that. This reminds me of my bike. The wolf was about the size of my new motorcycle. Have you seen it, by the way . Happy birthday, grandma really . Look how the brushstrokes follow the line of the gas tank. Hey hey brought my plusone. Jamie . ella fashion moves fast. Setting trends is our business. We need to scale with customer demand. In real time. jen so we partner with verizon. Their solution for us . A private 5g network. ella we now get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. marquis with a custom private 5g network. Our customers get what they want, when they want it. jen now were even smarter and ready for whats next. vo achieve enterprise intelligence. Its your vision, its your verizon. Weave got breaking news. Donald trump filing a motion less than and hour ago asking the judge to delay his Hush Money Trial until after the Supreme Court decides on his claims of president ial immunity. Lisa rubin is an msnbc legal correspondent. She joins me now. Can you help us understand how the Hush Money Case has anything to do with the Immunity Case . Chris, ill do my best to explain how donald trump believes it has to do with immunity. Donald trump has been charged with 34 Felony Counts of falsification of Business Records. Those Business Records relate to the reimbursement of Michael Cohen for the Hush Money Payments to Stormy Daniels in the fall of 2016. However, cohen was not repaid, and the invoices and checks and false records were not created until 2017 when, as you know, donald trump was serving as president. He says those should be considered as official acts because but for his being president , he would have never had to hire Michael Cohen as his personal counsel. If that sounds tortured to you, it has also sounded tortured to a federal judge who, when trump trialed to remove the Hush Money Course to Federal Court last spring, said trumps Immunity Argument was not even reasonable or colorable, in part because it was based on the portrayal of facts as i just gave them to you. So this trial is supposed to get going two weeks from today. What are the chances a judge agrees to the delay . I dont think very high. I think trump has already waived this argument. He raised it in front of judge hellerstein last june. Federal removal of a case against a federal officer requires not only that the person be a federal officer, but you identify a federal legal question, here a federal defense that you would raise. Judge hellerstein said the Immunity Defense at that time bus not considerable. Trump did not appeal that judgment. You can expect the manhattan d. A. s office to say in the first instance, hes already waived the argument, irrespective of what the court find. Trump had an opportunity to litigate this fully and fairly and he dropped the issue. Beyond that, they may also argue his attempt to characterize and cloak this as matter of president ial immunity is really lost, that this was a personal thing he did for Campaign Purposes and theres nothing president ial about this even if the paperedover of this occurred in 2017. Lisa rubin, thank you for that. Also in new york today, another not guilty plea from democratic senator bob menendez, a third indictment accusing him and his wife of trying to cover up a Bribery Scheme, selling his office and influence for cash, gold bars and a luxury car. It all adds up to 18 total charges ranging from bribery to extortion To Wire Fraud it sets the stage for a trial in may that, unless menendez decides hes not running for reelection will happen less than a month before the Senate Primary in new jersey. Joining me, former u. S. Attorney joyce vance