As trump continues his quest for total immunity regardless of his actions. Legal analysts join me live to discuss the significance. Chaos oncampus as per palestinian protests spread to colleges across the country, well take a closer look at whats fueling them, and what happens when politicians, like House Speaker mike johnson, enter the divide. And punchlines set for tonights White House Correspondent dinner. More on what its like to write those jokes and which ones work best. Im Jonathan Capehart in a tux, and this is the saturday show. I am all dolled up in my brandnew tuxedo for tonights White House Correspondents dinner, where donald trump will no doubt be roasted for his legal troubles. But, as we joke about his courtroom based campaign, trumps threat to democracy remains very real. And this week we saw evidence of that in none other than the Supreme Court. Trumps Immunity Hearing before the nine justices is raising alarm bells in legal and political circles. Not only does it show just how far the four times indicted on 88 counts the former president will go to avoid accountability for attempting to overturn a free and fair election, the hearing also exposed how some justices appeared willing to consider partial immunity so that future president s could make tough their decisions without fear of prosecution. Case in point, trumps lawyer, arguing, again, that the president should be able to get away with murder if it is an official act. If the president decides that his rival is a corrupt person, and he orders the military, or orders someone to assassinate him, is that within his official acts for which he can get immunity . It would depend on the hypothetical. We see that well back could be an official act. The justices were more concerned about allowing president s to commit crimes with impunity. S Novel Theory would immunize former president s for Criminal Liability for bribery, treason, sedition, murder, and here, conspiring to use a fraud to overturn the results of an election, and perpetuate himself in power. Such president ial immunity has no foundation in the constitution. The framers knew two too well the potential of a king. Trump has asked the Supreme Court if he is in effect a king, and at least four members, the socalled originalists, have said in essence they will have to think about it. The conservative justices signaled their likely to send Immunity Claim to the lower court, which would delay his federal Election Interference trial for months, meaning, that trial is unlikely to start before the november election. Now, meanwhile, trumps Fake Electors Scheme is finally being prosecuted in arizona with an indictment charging mark meadows, rudy giuliani, and 16 other trump allies, and naming trump, himself, as an unindicted coconspirator. And then there is trumps hush money trial in manhattan, where witnesses revealed his earliest forms of Election Interference. Trump has denied the allegations and pleaded not guilty to 34 Felony Counts of falsifying business records. Former National Inquirer publisher, david pecker, was the first to take the stand. Testifying that he suppressed story about trumps scandals and spread lies about his rivals in the 2016 race. Also known as fake news. Pecker said he served as the eyes and ears for the campaign at trumps on request. Then, rhona graff testified under subpoena, saying she remembered seeing Stormy Daniels in the trump tower lobby, and adding her contact info to the Trump Organization database. When court reconvenes, tuesday morning, there will be more testimony from the banker, who helped Michael Cohen pay off Stormy Daniels. Now, heres some food for thought. As we hurtle into week two of trumps hush money Election Interference trial. If the Supreme Court rules as expected in the Immunity Case the case brought by District Attorney alvin bragg could be trumps first and last criminal trial before the election. Joining me now from a former federal prosecutor, Legal Affairs columnist for politico magazine. Msnbc justice and Legal Affairs analyst, anthony coley, director of the Justice Department office of Public Affairs and adviser to attorney general merrick garland. Renato, have they made it clear this is also about Election Interference and not just covering up an affair . They made that front and center in their opening statement. They are trying to make that case throughout this trial, and in fact, thats what they need to show in order to make this a Felony Charge as opposed to a misdemeanor, so i think we will see more evidence along those lines and more argument along those lines in the weeks to come to the bottom line is they are trying to show concerted effort to influence the election, and we heard from the first is, david pecker , that the former White House Press secretary was actually part of that effort [ inaudible ] anthony, the National Enquirer publisher, david pecker, he was on the stand for four days. Did the Defense Discredit any of his story during Cross Examination . Not really, jonathan. This was the prosecutions game. They needed to dispense this false notion that this case was a Minor Bookkeeping Issue as donald trump says, or that it was about hush money payments, which in and of itself are not illegal. This is a broad Criminal Conspiracy to keep critical permission from the American People and it started in august, 2015, just weeks after donald trump announced that he would run for president , and it started in this meeting at trump tower where david pecker was summoned, he had Michael Cohen in the room, and as you noted he decided, he promised trump there that he would be his eyes and ears. So throughout this campaign for any types of allegations and affairs, i think uyghurs saw this week, a clear win for the prosecution, david pecker took them inside the room and made all these things very real. Renato, someone else inside the room, how did Michael Cohens banker, gary farro, play in . He takes the stand again, on tuesday. Thats right. First of all one thing that does matter although this case isnt entirely about falsifying business records, that is at the core of this, but really what this win will show us, it will prove these payments took place. He is going to back up and corroborate test many of Michael Cohen. We all know Michael Cohen has a credibility issue, given his prior convictions. He is going to corroborate that, and hes going to show what the payments were for that they werent payments for legal services, that they were in fact hush money payments, and that leads [ inaudible ] one more question for you, renato. Judge juan merchan has scheduled another hearing on trumps gag order. Why didnt he rule after the first 10 times he allegedly violated the gag order. . There is an image of The Sword Of Damocles hanging over your head. I think the judge wants this Ruling Hanging over the head over trumps lawyer. Trumps lawyers now at the end of the day, ask evidence that comes in, they really dont want to be on the judges bad side, and he is using this as a tool to try and get them to rein in their client as much as possible. Oh, renato, thats really good. Im sorry. [ laughter ] i love it when i hear stuff i have not heard before. Anthony, i want to turn to the trumps Immunity Claim. I want to read this. Im not focused on the here and now of this case. Im very concerned about the future. Anthony, why shouldnt i be concerned that he isnt concerned about the facts of the case before them . Right, that is really a head scratcher. Most of what you see in court cases, and certainly the Supreme Court, justices, judges, are required to look at the facts of the case, and what hes saying here has a lot of people scratching their head. I dont know that anybody can really understand how this is going to play out, but, jonathan, what disturbed me more is the fact this could get pushed back down to the trial court level. That would achieve what donald trump really wants. Hes not trying to win this case on the merits at all. He is trying to throw sand in the ears of the case, to slow down, to keep it from being fully adjudicated before the election. At the end of the day i think its going to come down to the American People doing what we all did in 2020, and that is going to the polls. Renato, i cant let you go in the segment without asking this question could the justices talked about official acts, and lawful orders of the president. Is an order by the president considered lawful by nature . Who determines that . Thats a great question. And that really is going to require factfinding by the judge. Thats really what we were just discussing a moment ago. Is that essentially you would have a hearing in front of the judge, in that you make preliminary findings whether this is an official act. Really, thats why this is a potential threat to our democracy. We will have to have a whole segment just on this lawful, you know, lawful acts, lawful orders from the president. Because i seem to remember reading somewhere that if the president gives an order its considered a lawful, like, you have to follow it, otherwise you are disobeying the commanderinchief. Anyway, anthony coley, renato mariotti, thank you for joining the saturday show. Humming up, new polling shows Trump Supporters continue to stand by their man in spite of his criminal charges. They represent exactly what the Founding Fathers feared most, according to robert kagan of my next guest on the saturday show. Y the next few months will be pivotal in the debate over womens reproductive freedom. Were talking a 2 footlong churro. 3 Footlong Pretzel and a five Dollar Footlong cookie. Every Epic Footlong deserves the perfect sidekick. Order one with your favorite subway series sub today. vo if you have graves disease, your eye symptoms could mean something more. Order one with your favorite that Gritty Feeling cant be brushed away. Even a little blurry vision can distort things. 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Ive had terrible Flooding Problems on my porch. Now i understand why. Right now leaffilter is offering a free inspection, on your schedule. Leaffilter is a permanent gutter solution, so you never have to worry about costly damage from clogged gutters again. Call us today and schedule your free inspection. To schedule your free inspection, call 833. Leaf. Filter today or visit leaffilter. Com. Donald trumps supporters are sticking by him despite his many ego battles. According to a new cnn poll about three quarters of trump voters will continue to pack him in the 2024 election, even if hes convicted of a crime. The question is, why . My next guest argues in his latest piece for the Washington Post, adapted from his forthcoming book, robert kagan writes, it is what the founders worried about and Abraham Lincoln warned about, a decline in what they called Public Virtue. They feared it would be hard to sustain Popular Support for the revolutionary liberal principles of the declaration of independence, and they buried the virtuous love of liberty and equality would, in time, give way to narrow, selfish interest. Joining me now is robert kagan, columnist for the Washington Post and senior fellow at the brookings institution, author of the new book, rebellion, how antiliberalism is tearing america apart again, which comes out on tuesday. As always, thank you very much for speaking with me and coming on the show. Your argument emphasizes the decline in Public Virtue as a key factor behind the support for trump. Explain what you mean by that. Well, when the founders, when we fought the revolution, and the founders established the constitution, they were acutely conscious of the need to protect individual rights, which is what the revolution was about. They established a system unlike any other that had been established in history, one founded on the liberal principles that all human beings are equal and enjoy the same natural rights, and that its the job of government to protect those rights. But they knew, and it was obviously true, that any americans didnt necessarily agree with those principles, but slaveholders for instance, or after the civil war, much of the south, which was implementing jim crow laws, and so, weve always had a large number of americans who are fundamentally disagreeing with what the founders created, which is a system that levels hierarchies, racial, religious hierarchies, and people have been resisting that. I think what we are seeing today, at least from a substantial, and the core of trumps supporters are people who would like to see our system fundamentally change, someone to call it a christian america, someone to call it a White Christian america, which is not what the founders created. I want to pick up on what you just talked about. For two centuries many white americans felt under siege by the founders liberalism. Talk more about how does race tie into all of this . Well, race has been a critical issue for americans since its founding. Race, regard to the south, john calhoun and others did not believe black people had equal rights, so they justified the system of slavery on that basis. And its pretty clear that a lot of americans historically have wanted to regard our nation as a white, protestant nation. They believe thats what the founders wanted, even though its definitely not what the founders wanted, and i think its possible to record in practically every generation a significant number of whites who are suffering what sociologists call status anxiety, that believe that the culture that they know, and the culture that they support, and that its about them is being changed by the influx of immigrants, by granting rights to blacks and other minorities, and to women, that is not the america they thought they were in. And a lot of this America America make America Great again lets go back to when these groups didnt have all these rights, and were not pressing for equality not just of rights, but in the way they are treated in the increasingly diverse american family. Let me get you one one more thing, bob. You point out christianity has been a dominant force throughout our countrys history. How does trump amplify that compare to what we have seen in the past . Well, we have never seen a president ial nominee i would say in the last 70 or 80 years run on such a White Supremacist platform. He began it in 2012, when he first ran for the president by singling out barack obama and a conspiracy essentially sing the First American black president wasnt really an american. In so doing, i think he signaled to unhappy whites out there that hes been their guy. And hes been their guy ever since. Right now theres a hugely dependent relationship between trump and this core of white, christian supporters. Robert kagan, thank you for joining the saturday show. Visit the Washington Post online, look under the opinion section, go to robert kagan, read this masterful essay. Actually, bob, every essay you write is masterful, and i really appreciate you coming on this show. Thanks, its a real pleasure. The next several months will b