Good to be with you, im alex witt in for katy tur. Lets go to the courthouse, joining us from outside the courtroom, Nbc News National Correspondent yasmin vossoughian, 3 00 p. M. Eastern, catch us up on todays testimony and what is happening right now. Reporter Hope Hicks Integral to the prosecution here, alex, connecting the dots, and i want to talk to you first about a moment that just took place regarding the article in january 2018 that came out, revealing the payoff to Stormy Daniels from Michael Cohen, and how hope hicks framed that payoff, and let me read the verbiage inside the courtroom. Can you describe the conversation and hope hicks saying this, it was the day after michael told the New York Times he made a payment without trumps knowledge and trump said he spoke to michael and he paid this woman to protect from a false allegation and michael had done it to protect him and had not told him anything about it. I had known cohen for three and a half years. I did not know michael to be a charitable person. He is the kind of person to take credit. Trump thought it was generous for him to do and he appreciated the loyalty. Michael felt like it was his job to protect him. That would be out of character. I dont know michael to be an especially charitable person. He wanted to know how it was playing out in the media. This is kind of part of what has been going on throughout the day, alex, which has been an incredibly interesting testimony, i have to say, from hope hicks, just 45 minutes in court, they are going into recess at 3 45. She has been connecting the dots. Every person we have heard on the stand, rhona graff, david pecker, hope hicks has been connecting those dots. She was asked the questions, who is allen weisselberg, what he did do in the Trump Organization, where did rhona graff sit. How close was she to the former president , thinking back to rhona graffs testimony about the fact that she knew Stormy Daniels had visited trump tower, inserted Karen Mcdougals address and phone number into the former president s phone log. Also they established a motive with hope hicks, and i bring that up to say it was the rapid fire questions that we heard from the prosecution to hope hicks. Was the former president concerned after release of the access Hollywood Tape, concerned about learning a vote from women after the release of the access Hollywood Tape. Was he concerned about how republicans were reacting to the access Hollywood Tape. They were painting this picture throughout the day of a man, two, three weeks out. When the access Hollywood Tape was released and he was concerned about being able to win the election in just three weeks time. And then we go back, of course, to the attorneys for Karen Mcdougal and Stormy Daniels who talks about the emails sent to Michael Cohen on october 26th and 27th. Talking about the deal, the subsequent payoffs as well. Hope hicks really connecting these dots, alex, and setting up the time line in the lead off to these ultimate payoffs. The other thing i will say is we know hope hicks relationship with the former president of the United States, and one thing that has remained steadfast in the courtroom is despite the fact that there has been a cooling, alex, of their relationship since 2022, since she testified over the events leading up to and on january 6th, she still seems very loyal and warm to the former president , despite the fact that reports inside the courtroom, the former president is not looking at him directly. She has glanced in his direction, but hes looking at the monitor, versus actually looking at her directly. All of this playing out in the courtroom behind me, alex, and i suspect by the way, because of the fact that well have only about 43 minutes left in the day in court, it is likely prosecution will not toss this over to defense for cross. They want to end this day on a high note in their court. All of which i agree, particularly the part that you just mentioned about hope hicks and the warm relationship she has with the trump family. The fact is, everybody, we are in a bit of a break. This is not an official break. But the court is allowing hope hicks to gather herself, and that is because she has broken down, just as yasmin was speaking and started crying. She started crying as Donald TrumpsDefense Attorney began his cross, and again, im reading this from what were getting inside the transcript underway right now. It did not appear to be triggered by any specific question. Bove had only asked her whether she focused on real estate at the Trump Organization, and heres an interpretation color, if you will, as to what were hearing an interpretation from that question. As our colleague adam noted. Her emotions seem to be reminding her how the trump family opened up worlds for her and essentially made her career. She is trying to collect herself right now. We are on just a delay. It is not an official break. Hicks got emotional at the moment above which brings up the fact that the trump family gave her an opportunity to work. She started with the Trump Organization back in 2014. This is a 35yearold woman. So at the age of 25, freshly out of Southern Methodist university in dallas where she had graduated. This is a woman who was given a pretty darn prestigious opportunity within the Trump Organization. So we can understand that she is quite emotional about this, despite the fact that donald trump and she have not communicated since 2022. It was very much a close relationship, described almost like hope hicks being another daughter to donald trump. We have a wonderful panel with us here. Chuck rosenberg, a criminal Defense Attorney, of course. And msnbc legal analyst, thats you Danny Cevallos, and Washington PostSenior National political correspondent, msnbc political analyst, ashley parker, and chuck, youre a former u. S. Attorney and former senior fbi official and also an msnbc legal analyst. Danny, with you being right here as were reading hope getting emotional on the stand, quite unique, something you would expect given the nature of her . Shes a straight shooter. Shes tried to be. Has said im here under subpoena. I dont want to be here. Im nervous about being here. Shes been under testimony about 45 minutes for the lunch break and the better part of an hour. Witnesses get emotional. Theres always a box of tissues close to the witness stand. It is surprising that hope hicks who has withstood the Slings And Arrows of being in trumps orbit for almost a decade is still getting emotional which shows that those witnesses who worked for or still work for trump are pretty loyal to trump and they dont want to be there. Hope hicks, rhona graff, the other witness who testified, it is surprising that hope hicks with all of her experience is getting emotional on the stand, but it really shows that she is still i dont want to say loyal because i dont want to suggest that would color her testimony but that this entire experience is difficult for her because she acknowledges, apparently, that the trump family gave her plenty of opportunities. She has said im nervous. She clearly doesnt want to be here. This this has got to be difficult for her. She has come across as a credible witness. The first, i would say, combination of a high profile, marquee name witness, but highly credible. You havent had that with the other witnesses so far in this case. There is some for the defense in her testimony. For example, that she cant remember exactly if donald trump told her about his specific knowledge of payoffs and other things, so there is wiggle room for the defense. Im interested to see how they go after her on crossexamination. I expect them to be polite, explore what she doesnt know, what trump wasnt present for or didnt say he knew about, and maybe get off relatively quickly with hope hicks. So it took about five, six minutes for her to compose herself. Were being told she is back on the stand, but, chuck, what does it tell you, granted danny has described that this isnt unusual, thus the box of tissues nearby anybody testifying, but when its coming to the defense, is that a catalyst for emotion or do you think it might be just the release of being finished with the prosecution for now . I think the latter, alex, its a bit of an emotional release. Very few people want to testify in court. In my experience as a prosecutor, ive had witnesses forget their own names, forget where they worked, forget where they lived. There are some people who testify routinely, you know, expert witnesses, maybe an fbi or dea special agent, but putting those folks aside, nobody wants to be there, and so i think it is emotional. As poised and as articulate as hope hicks may be in venues in which she is more comfortable. This is not her place. This is not something shes used to. I dont see any basis for emotion. I agree with danny, i think the best crossexaminations generally speaking are polite and fast. Theyll point out the things she doesnt know, and maybe try and dirty up Michael Cohen a little bit more. But we had always learned as prosecutors to keep it simple, keep it short, get them on, get them off. Yeah, and in fact, she is back on the stand right now, and i want to correct myself because apparently the jury did leave, which would be a wise thing to do, right, danny, that wouldnt prejudice them watching her cry for four or five minutes, trying to compose herself. They did long beach the courtroom. They have reentered and they started the Defense Crossexamination with her, and she immediately gets on the stand and apologizes. She says sorry about that. And then its been said by the attorney, if you need a minute, just let me know. Trump org ran like a Family Business and you met the family children, hicks is saying yes, you had mutual respect. She says yes. So youre establishing what about her right now, her hesitancy, the reticent nature of having to come here to testify, and to which side does that benefit . On cross, what the defense is going to try and establish really is not a lot. Theyre not going to spend a lot of time with her. Theyre going to establish what she knew, what her basis was for knowing things, maybe cast some doubt on whether she was present for conversations or whether she may have missed some things here and there. I dont expect them to keep her on very long. Theyre going to talk a i mean, we have, what, half an hour or so to go. Very little time. Its theoretically possible. You have to go over all of the things they brought up on direct, at least anything where you can cast any doubt on what she said, and really probably go to Michael Cohen because once again, another witness has hit Michael Cohen with shrapnel, and Michael Cohen is increasingly coming off as kind of a comical character in a trial that is not comical at all. But the prosecution knows that. They knew this was coming. Theyre poised to deal with that, and they are all but conceding that Michael Cohen is a flawed character. But theyre going to argue that his testimony and his evidence is not flawed. This is something that happens all the time. But its also why hope hicks is an important witness because as i mentioned before, she doesnt have those credibility issues. She is believable. She may not have all the evidence the prosecution would want, but shes got some of it, and shes an important anchor for testimony of other witnesses whose credibility may be a little more in doubt. Chuck, what do you think, do you agree that the defense may try to wrap up with her in the next 30 minutes before being dismissed for the weekend. One of the benefits of them doing that or is there a benefit to hold them over, have the defense line of questioning be the last thing in the jurors minds, and come back and finish up with her on monday . Its no benefit to her to be held over the weekend. Im sure she would like to be done with this whole thing. Even after the Defense Cross examines ms. Hicks, the prosecution may have an opportunity to redirect her, ask her questions once again to try and clear up or clean up anything that happens on cross. In my view its probably best from a Defense Perspective to have the last word for the weekend. Im sure the prosecution would like to have the last word before the weekend. All of that aside, i mean, this minute focus, this intense focus on each question and each answer and who starts and who finishes is all going to get lost at the end of the day. Because the case isnt going to turn on who finishes today and starts on monday, its going to turn on whether or not they can prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. I would probably like to have my redirect at the end of the day, and let ms. Hicks go and release her as a witness, and start fresh on monday. Thats not up to me as a prosecutor. Its not up to danny as a Defense Attorney. Its up to the judge. And she was asked by the Defense Attorney who had mutual respect, she responds, yes, i really looked up to rhonna, and cohen, question mark, my only interaction with him was related to his interest in the political operation. Shes asked, your title was press secretary. Yes. More politics, less hotels, you were putting together statements, yes. Then asked, mr. Cohen wasnt part of the campaign, her answer, no, he would try to insert himself at certain moments but he wasnt supposed to be on the campaign in any official capacity. There were things he did in a voluntary capacity because of his interest, and then was asked the campaign had separate counsel, yes. Cohen was instructed to focus on president trumps business. Yes, he was at the Trump Organization is hope hicks response there. In 2015 and 16, thats where he still worked . Yes. Do things frustrate to go campaign staff, unauthorized, went rogue, Hicks Answers to that, yes. And then asked again to emphasize, he went rogue, and she answers yes. So sometimes did things unhelpful, and she answers, he liked to call himself fixer or mr. Fix it. It was only because he first broke it. Theres an ouch right there from hope hicks. Then were going into asking about david pecker, and you met david pecker before trump org, and you had a sense of who he was, yes. Trump gives a lot of feedback, shes asked, yes, he does. Let me bring in actually, well have you ashley in a moment. I want to get back to you yasmin. When you spoke with us ten minutes ago, and you said it was the hope they would wrap up with the prosecution, and yet they have had to pivot to defense because its just enough time to at least get this going. What are you hearing from inside the courtroom . Reporter i think theres a point to be made here about hope hicks credibility, and that is she is one of the only witnesses without a quote unquote kind of shady past, right. We know the way the defense has gone about this is every time someone has taken the stand that has some sort of a shady past, for instance, davidson, right, hope hicks, excuse me, Stormy Daniels, Karen Mcdougals attorneys, they would kind of get into the shady past of davidson and the clients he took on, tried to cut into the credibility of every witness or potential witness. Hope hicks is a very credible witness for the prosecution. As you read, alex, shes also a credible witness for the defense as well, and thats why i found it to be really interesting as to how the defense was going to go about cross examining hope hicks. It seems as if theyre going to use her to prove their point and the fact that the former president in a way was not involved in making these decisions to pay off Stormy Daniels and Karen Mcdougal, by saying, for instance, as you ahead, that Michael Cohen only had to fix things because he broke them first, right . So in a way, hope hicks is not only bringing credibility to the case being built by the prosecution, hope hicks is also bringing credibility to the case being built by the defense as well. Hence why she seems to be such an important witness to both sides here. Moving to you, ashley parker, you have an outstanding article today that was just published, and its just a really deep dive into hope hicks. Give me your sense as you pull together the reporting here of how hope hicks feels about the predicament that she finds herself in right now. Shes someone who doesnt seem to have ever saw the spotlight, yet she stood next to a president of the United States for a couple of years. Is this something her testimony, her being in the spotlight that you would think she harbors resentment about . The pressure is clearly getting to her, thus the tears that were on display, you know, ten minutes ago. From my reporting, she doesnt harbor any resentment towards the former president , certainly, about being called today, but she does have a lot of anger and frustration about it. Shes made that clear to friends, she thinks its a waste of time and money. This represents a star turn in a show that hope hicks wants nothing to do with. Its a little ironic, shes a former teenage model who Kinded Of Spurns the spotlight. Shes never liked that, and its worth noting, this is just the latest iteration of something that is true for a lot of people in trumps orbit, but especially hicks, and its that even in moments when she