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I relish the day i can face him and speak my truth. Stormy daniels take the stand telling the jury what happened with donald trump. The door to the hotel opens, and what is donald trump wearing . Silky pajamas. And how she was paid for her silence. What is illegal is the hush money. If i did not sign the nda, he would not be indicted. Tonight, the impact of her testimony on the case. We are talking a colorful witness. And what her testimony says about the defendant. This is a man who felt entitled to have his way with women. Lisa rubin and harry litman watched it happen and they join me tonight. One candidate in the courtroom and the other on the campaign trail, how are the polls this type . Jen psaki is here when all in starts right now. Good evening from new york. I am chris hayes. I think its fair to say today was the biggest of Donald Trumps New York Criminal Trial so far. This morning, the star witness for the prosecution took the stand. Stormy daniels, the woman at the center of the case, testified under oath today. Daniels is a former Adult Film Actors who prosecutors say any sexual encounter with donald trump in 2006 and was the recipient of the subsequent Hush Money Payment in the weeks leading up to the 2016 election to hide the fact from the american public. Theres no disputing the details are salacious. Some may find them uncomfortable to hear. The encounter between donald trump a Stormy Daniels is relevant as this man once again competes to be the president of the United States. The question of whether or not donald trump interfered in the 2016 election by engaging in Business Record fraud by shielding relevant information from voters from Hush Money Payments should be front of mind for voters as the rest to vote for him again which is one of the reasons why all eyes are and Stormy Daniels today in lower manhattan. With the expresident in the room, listening, brow furrowed, and it points according to the judge, Cursing Audibly about 10 feet away, dennis told the jury about her initial encounter with trump nearly two decades ago. Sheet described meeting that then reality tv hosted ice golf event when she was 27 years old and he was 60. After initially believing she was going to have a meal with trump, daniels arrived at his Penthouse Suite defend him wearing silk pajamas rather than dinner attire. She said she made him change his clothes than the two discussed her career in the adult film industry. Trump described his problems with his wife at the time at home taking care of their 4 monthold son. Daniels eventually grew tired of trumps questioning. She told the jury, quote, at this point, i pretty much had enough of his arrogance and cutting me off it still not getting my dinner. So i said, are you always this rude, arrogant, and pompous . She also said they did not eat dinner. Instead, she went to the bathroom to touch up her makeup and in a moment she described as a, quote, jump scare, return define the future president on the hotel bed and only his underwear. She said the two had a brief, unprotected sexual encounter after which trump told her quoting here again, oh, it was great. Lets get together again, honeybunch. In response and as such he left as quickly as she could. Daniels testified about the actual Hush Money Payment itself. She said interest in her story grew dramatically following the release, infamously, of that Access Hollywood t. A keep him little moment in the story, and she wanted her story to be made public ahead of the 2016 election. Ultimately, she said she sign the Nondisclosure Agreement with trump via Michael Cohen for 130,000 in order to put the ordeal behind her. She said, it was her understanding she was supposed to pretend they never met. She said the fear of violating that deal is why she initially signed onto a statement that denied the affair. Trumps lawyers attempted to use a testimony which at times was both granular and freewheeling as justification for a mistrial. They petitioned for one after she testified. Judge merchan deny the request and said shes a little difficult to control but ultimately concluded, quote, i do not believe were at the point where mistrial is warranted. Adding the defense itself didnt put up much of a fight for crossexamination, quote, im also surprised there were not more objections. Wallowing crossexamination during which trumps attorney tried to discredit daniels, court adjourned for the day. We are far from over. She will retake the stand thursday morning after the wednesday day off break, and i imagine there will be more to learn from the. Joining me at two people watched it all happen live at the courthouse. Lisa rubin a former Deputy Assistant attorney general harry litman. Its great to have you here. Lets start in the morning which is, we did not know that Stormy Daniels was going to take the stand today. We did not. I was standing in line when the Associated Press reported this morning that Stormy Daniels would be the witness. I have to tell you, i was surprised for a couple of reasons. I was surprised to had that gotten up before. I was surprised given where we were in the case, we heard perhaps the driest day of testimony in the trial so far yesterday. All about the false documents, or allegedly false Business Records, that constitute the heart of the crime that has been charged here. To then go from that and instead of moving forward with other witnesses who would testify about the false Business Records, to go backward in time, but also upward in interest to Stormy Daniels, was i think a little Surprise Narratively for me. We didnt know when the morning, but actually before the jury came in, the defense raised something about her testimony. We knew it was going to be she before the jury did. We could watch them there was a definite when it happened. You could zone in on the jury and their keen interest. This was a name they had been waiting to hear. And famous other person involved in this encounter. Youve got direct examination. Let me hear from each of you how you view whats important if youre setting up this under rick, what you need if youre the prosecution of this witness . Ill tell you what the prosecution said because it was largely what i anticipated. You need Stormy Daniels in the case because you need her to elaborate on what she wouldve told the public had she, and october 2016, not signed any agreement at all but instead come forward. You need the jury to believe that so they understand better what trumps motivation was for entering into the conspiracy in the first place and authorizing Michael Cohen to enter into the hush money settlement. You need to see her. Thats the other thing. Legally tangential but narratively at the heart. The jury is curious. She is the human figure that puts everything in motion. You need the jury would be dissatisfied if it doesnt hear her story. When i saw she was going to be on, one of the challenges for a witness like this, the way human beings work is when we tell the same story over again we dont tell it the same way every time. Its how people are. Its how memory functions. One of the things that happens another Litigation A Criminal Trounces when you have someone, they do the Deposition Man you dont want them talking a lot about it because then you said this and you said this. Youve got this person and she has talked about this quite a bit. We played her on jimmy kimmel. She wrote a book. What was your expectation of what kind of witness she would be . Lets start with the premise that the problem you identified as a problem for virtually every witness across this trial, something prosecutors talk to prospective jurors to. Peoples memory fluctuate and the events happened a long time ago. You will not blame people if there are minor inconsistencies because you will understand that human nature. They are prepared for that, but what makes Stormy Daniels or different than that is she has a story its rooted in a sexual trauma. Yes, she said today, trump never physically or verbally threaten here, but its clear in her retelling is its a problematic sexual encounter from her perspective. Like many sexual victims, the details that are most memorable and vivid are not the ones that are cognizable or important or relevant for a court of law. Confining her story to what the court thinks is important and what the defense will tolerate her testifying to his added challenge on top of those inconsistencies built from the fact these events happened, 2006 sexual encounter was 18 years ago. That is true as to the sexual act itself because judge merchan was worried it was president ial to trump. She speaks quickly. The da does not control her that much and judge merchan , he is peaked and actually at one point makes his own objection and sustains ethics a go too far. Thats the core narrative of the sex itself. More broadly, she tells a story, a sort of version of an american Success Story that is hardscrabble but exotic for lack of a better word. She humanizes herself to the jury which they will need. They know shes an Adult Film Actress and she tells something to really kind of try to dimensional eyes herself as a human being with hopes and careers and think she has done. And yet, does the jury next to it because theres the sensational kind of exotic aspect to it . I think what you said was relevant to in terms of the question of motivation. I was following along and people noted and i think it comes up in cross. It has a darker cast. Her telling is less sort of buffoonish, kind of and more this is gross. She is clear. It was not Sexual Assault but legal consent in a sense. But her experience, shes in a Power Position and she kind of got badgered into it. Theres an imbalance of power and she testified of looking at the ceiling at one point and thinking to herself, how did i misread the situation . How did i get to hear . I have to tell you, for me, where that called me back to his may 2023 sitting in a federal courthouse, not that far away, thinking about e. Jean carroll who was a victim of a Sexual Assault thinking after bantering with drum, they get she was going to have a Cocktail Party store and that lingerie floor, walking out after the assault, shaking thinking what did i i screwed up . What did i do to let it go here . It was murky and she was disassociated in the key event. This is my light malt light bulb moment from afar is putting them together which is to say its the access Hollywood Tape is the biggest crisis that Trump Campaign had to face. Accusations On The Record by women who said he sexually assaulted me. He groped me. This story and the way she told it today it seems much more of a possible deathblow then the version i think had been may be communicated before or how i understand it. It was like, Buffoonish Hijinks and less predatory. The reason that matter to me is because the motive here which is this is about the campaign. To put a finer point on it, when youre talking about the campaign on a day by day basis, Stormy Daniels signs the first iteration of the Nondisclosure Agreement thats not paid for by the trump people on the same day the New York Times reports that these other women are coming out of the woodwork to say they have been sexually assaulted by trump. Its happening in day by day starting with october 7 the Washington Post reporting the access Hollywood Tape in november 10 the New York Times reports these other women and Stormy Daniels signs of firsttime. But she does not sign the real agreement, the one that gets funded until october 20. The Trump Campaign is Fighting Valiantly to get out from under the access Hollywood Tape and the weight of it including all of these prominent republicans who dont want to associate themselves with him anymore. Had she told this story this would have been devastating. What hope hicks called a crisis wouldve been catastrophe. Until then, what if we had is maneuvering hush money. This was trump the grotesque. Trump, the foul monstrous figure that is what they were scared of in october of 2016. In the mud for the mistrial. I want to talk about that in trumps reaction because theres wild stuff from the judge which i will read in a moment. Theres more if you can stick around from this significant day including the warning from the judge that donald trump could be posting himself into jail. That might be a first in history, but its possible. Bu norman, bad news. I never graduated from med school. What . But the good news is. Xfinity mobile just got even better now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. Plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. I gotta get this deal. Thats like 20 a month per unlimited line. I dont want to miss that. Thats amazing doc. Mobile savings are calling. Visit xfinitymobile. Com to learn more. Doc . Since the start of the trial, donald trump violated his gag order 10 times. Just this week, he was find another 1000 for doing a Phone Interview where he said the jury was picked from a pool of 95 democrats. The judge gave him a stern warning sing, quote, it appears the 1000 fines are not serving as a deterrent which, obviously. The last thing i want to do is put you in jail. You are the former president of the United States. Possibly the next president as well. He warned trump his continued willful violations of this courts orders threaten the administration of justice. Constitute a attack on the rule of law and i cannot allow that to continue. It appears the judge was right. Its not serving as a deterrent because trump posted this, quote, i have been just recently told who the witness is today. This is unprecedented, no time for lawyers to prepare and no judge has ever run a trial in such a biased and partisan way. The post was quickly deleted from his account. Back at the table, lisa rubin and harry litman. That post, again, on the line. Not a direct violation but its about a witness which gets into territory. I want to read this part do i have this . Here it is. This is the sidebar between judge merchan and todd blanche at some point. You guys dont hear this . We are getting this later. I understand your client is upset, judge merchan, but he is cursing [ laughter ] audibly and he is shaking his head visually and thats contemptuous. The potential to intimidate the witness and jury can see that. I will talk to him. Im speaking at the bench because i do not want to embarrass him. Mr. Blanche, i will talk to him. I wont tolerate that. Mr. Blanche, i will talk to him. Thats pretty wild behavior. I have seen this movie before. Its my fourth trump trial in 12 months and have seen it before. Aside at the e. Jean carroll trial and the trial. I guess it went better for him for not having been there not just because he did not testify because he does stuff like this. At the second e. G. Carroll trial he banged his hand on the table and looked at the jury and said a did not happen. Absolutely you cant do that. The judge called it what it is. Contemptuous. It literally is. He has said before that he would not define a violation of the gag order, on his own without emotion. What the client does in court is not extrajudicial as he pointed out the other day. I think he is dead serious when he talks to todd blanche which is why you hear this, i will talk to him. I will talk to him. I do not think we saw that for the remainder of the day. Trump is dancing on the head of a pin. The problem is the das office knows that. They know judge merchan is prepared to send trump to jail for as little or as much time up to 30 days as possible. If they come forward with another alleged violation, they know it has to be a serious one that is worthy of the punishment that judge merchan has stated. He is willing to impose. He deleted it after half an hour. He is nervous. We said that. There is something happening. Let me ask the Mistrial Question that i want your sense of the day of Stormy Daniels and how she did. Quickly on the mistrial motion. He says as a threshold matter, i agree, things there were things that wouldve been better left unsaid. You said he was pointed on the. The witness was difficult to control but ultimately im not going to give a mistrial. Is that what you would anticipate . At most. It wasnt something that could prejudicial the entire proceedings. He had laid down these guardrails, and that was where they kept cash and the questioning, it was really stormy herself who really did go outside the answers quite a bit. I dont think he was flirting with a mistrial, and he told the da to take her back and cautioned her. Shorten her answers and she did. I was thinking of our frequent guest whose in the court for 25 years, people like theres lot of line crossing. Its like in the playoffs of the nba, you will push until you get the whistle. I want to get your sense, the cross seem to me not that effective as i read it but i was not in the room. Did you think it was effective . I thought there were moments where there were inconsistencies in her story and she appeared to tie herself up into knots. On the whole, the tone the defense took with her, which was combative from the start. A ton of witnesses in the trial. My suspicion is she was saving herself for the two Big Winds Today and i suspect shell be the one to cross examine Michael Cohen. Susan was well prepared. She knew the book that Stormy Daniels has written inside and out, but it didnt quite pay off because she was combative with stormy and the tone was nasty to a point that i think the jury will ultimately find empathy. Also, stormy did get more succinct in her answers and almost more emboldened by getting to answer leading questions. The fact she can say falls and stop right there. There were a few weird perry mason moments. Textbook mistakes. You want crossed to be crisp and have the witness answer every question yes, correct, correct. When you get to the point where you imply you are lying, thats when you go to the next topic. She went for broke repeatedly. You made it all up . Falls. And then she was stuck. There were repeated sidebars. Rhythm is everything on cross and her rhythm was reportedly broken. Its funny when youre in deposition and youre saying, where is it going . Youve got an idea here. What was your evaluation of her overall credibility today . In terms of what this witness meant for the case . I thought it was strong. Substantially, the core of the story was sympathetic and she substantiated everything. I found myself not certain. I thought there were different members of the jury who reacted to her differently. She was an unusual witness. Much more colorful. More vivid and dramatic. I thought overall, fine. I would not be surprised if some among the jury were a little bit nonplussed. I dont know how to go back. She matters for the feeling of the case. The righteousness of the case. Even if she were making it up, it would not matter for the charges and yet it would be devastating for the case. We want them to like her and i think they largely did. I wonder how you felt. I was uncertain. I think story me daniels is a complicated person. Shes a conversational person who had her own objectives and being a witness. I go back to the fact that for her it was a traumatic event. She wanted to tell her truth and her lived experience and how it fits into this case are not one in the same. That posed problems for the prosecution in the sense that susan who took the direct examination is an experienced prosecutor. Shes not a person who would lead a witness casually but there were times where i felt she was boxed in and did not have a choice but to ask leading questions to prevent Stormy Daniels from going on and on about things that were already warned that were prejudicial or both. Its interesting stuff. What she said. You will come back on thursday. There will probably be redirect, i imagine. What a day. That was, i cannot think you both enough. It was great. I dont even need to be there. I got what i needed. Thank you both. Still ahead. Donald trumps totally foreseeable problem with women boxed on his campaign. Run for governor, president. You think of that . People think of that all the time. What do you think . I dont want to. What about me with the women. They might like my women better. Jen psaki jones be and how Stormy Daniels testimony will play with voters. But here i am. Being me. Keep being you. And ask your Healthcare Provider about the number one prescribed hiv treatment, biktarvy. Biktarvy is a complete, onepill, onceaday treatment used for hiv in many people whether youre 18 or 80. With one small pill, biktarvy fights hiv to help you get to undetectable and stay there whether youre just starting or replacing your current treatment. Research shows that taking hiv treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting hiv through sex. Serious side effects can occur, including Kidney Problems and kidney failure. Rare, lifethreatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. Do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. Tell your Healthcare Provider about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. If you have hepatitis b do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your Healthcare Provider. Common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. No matter where life takes you, biktarvy can go with you. Talk to your Healthcare Provider today. Today testimony from Stormy Daniels in the trial of donald trump was salacious, embarrassing and frankly cringe worthy. Almost couldnt physically read the transcript. Daniels testified about her 2006 sexual encounter with trump in great detail from the silk pajamas he wore witchy compared to hugh hefner to the pet name he reap he used for her honeybunch. He does not take no for an answer. A man who wields his power over womens bodies. Stormy daniels has been clear all along. The encounter was not forced but it was unwanted. Today she testifies she felt, quote, there was an imbalance of power. He was bigger and blocking the way but i was not threatened either verbally or physically. She explained at one point she think she blacked out. It was an incident the night after her encounter with trump when he introduced her to former Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger and asked him to walk daniels back to her room. In her book, daniels wrote that Ben Roethlisberger requested a, quote, Good Night Kiss which she denied which then he pushed her hotel room door. She said she was terrified by the situation. He later settled a civil suit stemming from the allegation he raped a woman in his hotel room in 2008 at the same lake tahoe Golf Tournament for daniels alleged her affair with trump took place. Its key to remember the reason it was so important to donald trump to keep Stormy Daniels a story out of the press. In 2016 when fixer Michael Cohen paid daniels 130,000 for her sons, the access Hollywood Tape edges,. The final weeks of the president ial campaign and trump was revealed to have been bragging about committing Sexual Assault on tape. Then in the immediate aftermath, more than a dozen women came forward On The Record, named, accusing him of sexual misconduct. Eventually, trump was found liable for sexually abusing e. Jean carroll who said he raped her. One of the defining political social cultural stories of the trump era is about male power over womens bodies. Weve seen the play of from 2016 campaign to the womens march in the me to era to his Supreme Court nominees overturning roe v wade. Donald trump wields the Ultimate Sledgehammer The American patriarchy. Thats part of what was on display today. Display today. This painful blistering rash could also disrupt your work and time with family. 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Stop jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection ketoacidosis, or an allergic reaction. You may have an increased risk for lower limb loss. Call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of infection in your legs or feet. Taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Jardiance is really swell the little pill with a big story to tell with six months until the election, the president of the United States spends his day at the capitol antisemitism at an event while the republican nominee donald trump spent his day in court charged with 34 Felony Course of falsifying Business Records. Before the trial began, and eric thames poll found 50 of registered voters viewed the charges to cover Hush Money Payments to Stormy Daniels is either very serious or some a serious. And distressingly, women were twice as likely as men to say they view the charges as serious. While men were twice as likely as women to see it is not serious at all. 30 to 15 . Joining me is jen psaki who has a new book out today called say more. It out today. Congratulations on your first book. Thank you. That polling i saw today was snaked out of upholding they had been around a little bit. Is it that significant . The gender divide on this . Maybe. As you were saying, its not just this. For women across the country, you have a man whos running for president who doesnt believe you should have control over your own body. Thats literally as it relates to Abortion Rights and access and the more he talks about it its clear, but you heard a story today, and i heard your last segment and theres a legal component where you have a woman who said she blacked out while she was having sex with him. Thats not respecting your body either. A lot of women out there, its too much. Its A Bridge Too Far and you are seeing that now. Do i know that will be the deciding factor . I do not but when people say none of this matters, they are undervaluing the Disgusting Nests of the behavior. Thats well said. What ends up happening in the way week conduct discourse is the polls are, this is it. He is cooked or nothing matters. The answers is everything matters a little bit. One of the things that striking about revisiting 2016 and that period was the real sense of profound shock and recoil mechanism of so many people. Everyone was so grossed out and disgusted by what he said on the tape and women coming forward, he groped me on an airplane. Trump denies all the charges. It brought me back to a place with the country as a whole and maybe i had this quaint notion that there were things you could do that could sink your campaign. Its a clichi in politics. People have examples. This is a thing where you are done, you are out. We dont have that anymore. He is teflon don. That day, october 7, 2016, was the day with the u. S. Government, was working in it, finally put out a statement saying russia intervened in the election. I remember thinking this took a while. This tape is so crazy, it will tank his campaign, and we dont have to worry. Thats not what happened. That was the response of a lot of people. Republicans. Republicans wouldnt have to worry about this guy doing much. It contributed to a form of ptsd everyone says on of this is going to matter. No one is going to care. Its all baked in. Its all baked in. I am sorry, when you hear a woman blacked out while having sex with someone and it was so traumatizing that her hands were shaking, and you combine that with the fact this same person doesnt think women should make choices about their body, that may matter. We will have to see. It is six months out so the Prediction Game can be dangerous. We are projecting what we do not know the public will decide. I think how much events around the corner in terms of time. We talk about this, but after his impeachment, people were talking about him people getting out of his first impeachment. Covid. We didnt know covid what happened. We are projecting forward. I think the stability of the polling combined with the lurid nests of him and everything around him and these details is hard for people to square. A Daily Challenge for me to square. It is hard for me to square. Its hard to understand and digest. There is disinformation and surprising number of republicans think he wont go the 2020 election. There are many factors. At the same time, there are things that are going to happen. Things that might turn a curve for people that we dont know yet. Covid happen happen and that financial crisis. Ruth Bader Ginsburg was still alive. We have a lot to go. Does your first book, i have not read it. Extremely talented communicator. Thank you. So are you. I have worked very hard. Ive gotten there through work. Whats the book about . The book is a book i wish i had when i was in my 20s. Its lessened i have learned and how to communicate. Some how to talk publicly. Everyone doesnt do what we do or what i did in my last job. Talking is an art. Exactly. And talking to different bosses. People do not like yes men and women. What i learned from barack obama, joe biden, making mistakes and how you deal with bullies. I talked about the kremlin. They are my biggest bully. I do talk about that. It is lessons over the course of time and communicating for my life and timing government and for being a parent. You know what thats like. Its very humbling. Jen psaki, the book is called say more and out today. Yes, it is. Thank you. As the United Nations ulcers, quote, fullblown famine in gaza, Israeli Forces cut off a key crossing for aid. The latest on a worsening situation. Rsening situation. Arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower Respiratory Disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. Arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. Those with weakened Immune Systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. The most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. I chose arexvy. Rsv . Make it arexvy. A slow network is no network for business. Thats why more choose comcast business. And now were introducing ultimate speed for business, our fastest plans yet. Were up to 12 times faster than verizon, at t, and tmobile. And existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds at no additional cost. From the company with 99. 9 Network Reliability and advanced cyber security, its ultimate speed for ultimate business. And its all from comcast business. Its been a confusing and eventful last 72 hours in israels ongoing war in gaza. Hopeful news and terrifying news have been calming. Over the weekend, looked like there was a deal on the table for a ceasefire. Negotiators including william burns, director of the cia gathered in hopes of putting the final touches on a sought after agreement that would end Israeli Military operations in gaza are at least suspend them. Then a set of phased swaps, the return of dozens of israeli hostages home who remain in gaza and hamass hands for exchange for political detainees. On monday, hamas announced it would accept a ceasefire framework they came out publicly to say this and one proposed by egypt and qatar. Announcement that led to celebration among palestinians. Israeli senior officials said it was not the deal they had agreed to. And within hours the wartime cabinet gave a unanimous approval to launch an incursion into rafah. The last city on the southern border with egypt. The site of a critical checkpoint for food and medical aid to 1. 4 million palestinians who fled to save zones there. Mow the of the north of the countrys been evacuated. Israeli forces called in airstrikes on rafah, which you see there. Today, israeli tanks crossed into rafah and shut down the border crossing. The most important border crossing, bringing Aid Deliveries to a standstill. Israeli Prime Minister netanyahu promised a Ground Invasion into rafah is necessary for eradicating hamas that will happen with or without a Cease Fire Deal which is a little confusion. Thats over the objection of President Biden who has for months through all different channels of the American Government warned of an impending humanitarian disaster of the offensive proceeds. 1 Million People there and nowhere else to go. Most of the rest of gaza is uninhabitable. The Israeli Military has been warning the palestinians and rafah to evacuate to save zones, other parts of rafah is where they are telling them to go. As nbc news found in its own investigations including one last week, found dozens of palestinians were killed and seven airstrikes in the Israeli Military designated as save zones. Nbc news correspondent was on the team that investigated strikes and save zones and she joins me from cairo where shes tracking the ceasefire talks. Is great to have you. At this hour, i am so confused. There is so much spin so its difficult to know. Its not a transparent process. It will be clouded in secrecy. What the status of the talks for some sort of deal to pause or end hostilities, what is the current status . Reporter look. I dont know. Is the honest answer. What i can tell you is we have looked at the proposal that hamas agrees to. Has agreed to. Its a phased exchanges swap of hostages and prisoners and demands on the hamas side for withdrawal of Israeli Forces for the return of the displaced of their homes in gaza and for an end to the siege. This is the confusing part. Over the weekend, over the last several days, there was some excitement and some enthusiasm. Bill burns has been making the rounds, going to qatar and spent time in cairo and we understand hes going back to israel tomorrow to speak with the Prime Minister netanyahu. We were close, we believed, to a ceasefire agreement one hamas announced they had agreed and signed onto the proposal. Then, shortly afterward, the israeli war cabinet and government said hang on, this proposal was softened without our knowledge. As a result, we are not accepting this proposal that hamas has agreed to abide by. This is where we are right now. We understand that some of the sticking points are that the first set of released hostages could include deceased hostages. That is something israel would not accept. The Bigger Picture is what thomas wants is complete withdrawal of Israeli Forces meaning and end to the war. We know the Israeli Government and the Prime Minister has said that is not on the cards. There are many sticking points, but we will see if bill burns can pull it off. I saw some of the reporting about the status, an enormous difference between hostages alive and those who have tragically passed. There are two things i am confused by. The line from netanyahu and sometimes Senior Administration officials, the Rafah Incursion is happening where there there is a deal or not. That makes no sense. Thats the whole point of contention if theres incursion into rafah if you say will go in either ways so theres no possibility of a deal. That seems what may be happening now. Reporter right. That is why in terms of arab leaders, the palestinians are saying hang on. We thought we had the framework for a deal. Then we hear from the israeli Prime Minister that regardless, we are going into rafah which would kill any deal. As you mentioned, it is something that did not make sense on the face of it. It led to accusations that perhaps the israeli Prime Minister was trying to find a way to sabotage the deal. This is the accusation from arab capitals, hamas, and palestinians. Thats the explanation that is coming from this part of the world where i am in egypt. If i can mention, you mention israeli tanks entered rafah and they have also entered a section, there is a corridor since 2005 commits a corridor in agreement with egypt that Israeli Forces would not enter the corridor. Its something that is causing consternation in terms of the reaction coming from egypt and other arab capitals. The question is how much pressure is on netanyahu not just from americans. From his own people to come up with a deal that would allow for the release of these hostages. Internally, there is a lot of discontent right now. And there has been hostage families have been protesting. They wrote an open letter that i read earlier today. Enormous consequences for the civilians and rafah. Theres not many places to go and israelis are directing them from one place to the other. It is going to be very bad if there is a full invasion. Its unclear what will happen next. Hala gorani who has been reporting from cairo, some thank you so much. That is all in on this tuesday night. Y night. Right now. Good evening, my friend we have a very special lineup and im going to get right t tonight like i said is a very specialis night. We have so much news about donald trump and his legal troubles that ill be h joined my colleagues Rachel Maddow and to break this all down