i would much rather us go about it how the europeans are going about it because licensed professional therapists, by and large in the states, are not doing professional therapy with minors on conversion therapy. by and large, it's people like i was that did not have psychological training or degrees. right, so there you are. i take your point. you were not using the extreme physical measures, but the messaging tactics. you are definitely using religious messaging to dissuade people what they were doing, if they were participating in homosexual acts, was evil, sinful and was a betrayal of their christian beliefs. you knew, and i'm really asking you to reflect now on what you did, you knew that many of the people you were talking to were young, they were vulnerable,