exchange. there was criticism of the fill harmonic for going but it did turn out good. there is a place for ping-pong diplomacy. but we can't get any sense that is what they're doing. i can't figure out what they have been doing. >> there is also never a moment when dennis rodman sitting next to kim jong-un says, kenneth bae, let him come back to us. >> is he still there? >> no, they -- he's gone. but they made no effort. they never mentioned kenneth bae to him. charles smith met kim jong-un and shook his hand and said that people love the great leader. they love kim jong-un there and got a ten-minute standing ovation. if you don't applaud for ten minutes you could be disappeared. >> remember what happened in saddam hussein's iraq. if the team lost at football