the world over. i want to see bipartisanship as broad and as deep as possible. it is the president's job to make the case for his policies, even if his base doesn't like it. it's called leadership and it's required in this age of fighting terror. now, the president can do it, it just doesn't seem to where where he wants to put his political capital. >> paul, maybe the president won't make you a convert to the program, but in the political forum we saw today, the chairman of the house and intelligence committee, a republican, michele bachmann essentially going after mr. snowden and in doing that essentially taking the president's side. >> yeah, if you looked at that hearing today, i saw the coverage of it. the president is winning. if you look at the polls, the president is winning. he keeps pushing a couple of points, nobody is listening to your phone calls and nobody is reading your e-mails. and i think that's important. and then the checks and balances. that is critical. we are a nation of laws again, under bush and cheney, president