these people were promising something that they knew at the very beginning they could never deliver. so i think right now, the speaker and his leadership are trying to decide what can we do, should we have a vote where we don't get a majority of republicans with us or how can we convince a majority to come with us and allow those people to go their own way if that's what -- if that's what they need to do and they are intent on doing. it's a leadership moment, again, for the speaker of the house. >> david, i know we keep hearing the october 17th date from the treasury department when we would default on the debt by congress, you say that's miss leading. the real date is essentially halloween, trick or treat. >> the october 17th date was an estimate and moved a little bit. what i'm saying is is that if you don't do something about the debt ceiling, that's important. if you don't do something about that, you could be in a situation where social security benefits and other social insurance benefits don't go out