cruz meets. and we keep him away from the senate for a few days. >> dean, what about that? what if you had just let this rollout -- you believed it's going to be a complete disaster. you would argue it's probably already been a disaster in the way it's been rolled out. so why not just let it roll out? and if you're correct, everybody will turn against it. >> well, because it's been a plied very unfairly. basically all these corporate interests and now labor unions have gotten exemptions. the american people are the only group that haven't gotten an exemption. they ought to be free not to do this. but the fact is, in 2014 i think obama care could be a political albatross around the democrats' next necks. they would be smart right now to share some of that blame with the republicans. >> you say people are free not to get health insurance or should be free not to get health insurance. don't we all end up paying for those people anyway? >> right now taxpayers do pay for that and everyone gets health care one way or another. obama care tries to change the way everybody gets health care. but it does it in a way that