bad managers and so far just firing three executives and if that is true, why so few? >> i don't have a specific nu number of people that were specifically disciplined associated with the wait list scandal. the criminal i.g. has gone in and concluded that there was no misconduct, and there was no mall intent and it is somebody who didn't understand their job. >> but the managers of those people, honestly, they were not doing a good -- and you are from private business and i don't have to tell you that we had managers and supervisors who had not done their job. >> we had managers who did not understand how the do scheduling. >> maybe they shouldn't be mana managers? >> maybe they shouldn't be and more than 50% of the leaders in the vha have turned over in 24 months. >> and the congressional sources have been up convinced that anything has changed since the scandal except for the way they