kirby, he had two alternatives, pompeo's not connected with the president and, you know, and the state department doesn't really speak for the president, or pompeo is connected to the president, and they're kind of a cabal, and the people in the state department, that's cut out. and that makes, you know, pompeo and trump and giuliani out there and other just kind of doing their own foreign policy. >> the reality is that that's why volker's testimony ultimately will be quite interesting because i think the state department's role in giuliani's communications with ukrainian officials is still, you know, pretty murky in terms of what we do know. giuliani has put out text messages showing that volker was, you know, a key conduit between him and ukrainian leaders. so it will be incumbent upon volker to sort of explain was the state department trying to contain the damage as the whistleblower alleges of giuliani's communications, or did they play a more instrume