intimate, invite guests. you would imagine more polite perhaps than in cleveland. that could change the dynamic. >> right. i think so. in cleveland, you're playing to the camera and the audience, and it's sort of the same thing because the audience is a national basketball association-size audience. here you're playing to an audience which is really like a small community theater sort of vibe. it's much more intimate. but you also have to remember that millions and millions of viewers out there who are going to be watching, that will be interesting to see how that affects the dynamic. >> it will. when it comes to moderating the debate, everyone has got an opinion in terms of how the moderator does. i honestly -- jake's going to be great, there's no question, but it is almost a lose-lose, you feel like sometimes. >> it's totally lose. what you're hitting on is the problem that every moderator faces, which is how do i control the debate without becoming a part of the story. and if there's one thing we know about politicians in republican presidential candidates investigatingally, their greatest fallback when under pressure is to go after the moderator to say as a member of the mainstream or lamestream media. i will say one thing tapper has