zbloop the president gets to run the white house the way he wants to. he's got trusted advisers that some are on the u.s. payroll and some not. and so, yeah he -- he should have wide latitude as to how he gets his advice. >> we'll see, kate if more and more republicans stick with the president or break from the president, because as you know, there are several more witnesses, a number of more witnesses coming before the house impeachment committees and more revelations certain to come. kate. >> that's for sure. thank you, manu. sarah thanks so much really appreciate it. joining me right now right now is dab dana bash. cnn legal analyst and former attorney general. great to see you guys. anne, start with mulvaney and what he said in the briefing room with regard to ukraine and aid. this whole get over it, saying it out in the open, the line from him, is that -- forget like in a court of law. is it a credible defense here?