like, it was very easy to tell. >> sealand of the pacific closed its doors and was looking, i guess, to make a buck on the way out and these whales are worth millions of dollars. >> when seaworld heard that tilikum was available after this accident at sealand of the pacific, they really wanted tilikum because they needed a breeder. so i don't even think that anybody even was questioning like, is this a good idea? >> my understanding of the situation was that tilikum and the others would not be used in shows. they would not be performance animals. our understanding of their behavior was it was such a highly stimulating event for them, they were likely to repeat it. >> sealand was -- we were all young and a bit of sea cowboys, and we weren't so technical and scientific as seaworld. so we all had this vision that they knew more than us and they were better than us and tilikum would have a better pool and better life and he'd have better care and he'd have better food and be a great life for him. so it was like okay, tili,