>> what did we say, 10,000 feet or thereabouts? >> yeah, you want to be down 8,000, 10,000 feet, and we're below that. >> there are other ways to vent too. you can use air conditioning systems. it can depend on the aircraft, depend on configuration, vent laying of the cockpit. but you need to get down to -- you need to get down because you want to planned. you're not going to want to fight a fire in the air. fire is the worst thing you're probably going to face as a pilot. >> martin, thank you very much. mitchell as well. appreciate you. let's bring back our panel, talk about the zombie or ghost plane theory savage. bill, a lot of people quite frankly don't like us calling it ghost plane or zombie plane. because in deference to the people who are on board that plane. one can understand that correct? >> yes. yes, i would agree with that. but to incapacitate a crew, either through depressurization or smoke, is also very far-fetched because in any kind