happens in 2024. our democracy is in peril. the question is can it withstand the two upcoming elections? especially, jim, the one coming up in 2024 where we might have the former guy back in the mix. >> yeah, i mean, one of the things, don, that people are -- they're sort of having a guessing game about is whether or not trump is going to run for president. he's essentially -- he's pretending to run for president right now. so it doesn't make any difference. and you know, one of the things that we hear, don, and maybe you hear too, is oh you guys, you're so obsessed with trump, you talk about trump all the time. well, if he is the leader of the party -- >> trust us, we don't want to. but go on. >> we don't want to. but i call it the trump-owned party, the t.o.p. if that is how it's going to be, and he is for all intents and purposes the front-runner and the leader of the party how can we not have this conversation about him? and he is at the very heart of all of these dangers facing our democracy right now.