staring into cathrode. they have smart phones. >> can poor countries do it? in other words do we have time for everyone to get as rich as america and then start this decoupling, this dematerialization you call it? >> the only reason i'm not confident we have time is because of global warming which is real and bad and we're not taking action on it. greenhouse gases are just a form of air pollution. i don't mean just because they're not easy but they're not mysterious. we've had amazing success at reducing air pollution levels. the the point i make in the book is we know the playbook for dealing with tough problems like pollution, which is a bad side of the capitalistic economy we've built. >> don't think that the solution lies in some kind of personal virtue of restaint and, you know, use less stuff, less energy. think instead of big