i think america will use less energy in ten years than it does today, no matter how big the economy gets. >> what is the consequence? if you're right, whatdize that mean? >> we don't have to contemplate not growing anymore or voluntarily reducing consumption. we can continue to grow while taking better care of the planet. i think low-income countries are going to get to that point of peak stuff and start decreasing much sooner than we did because they have access to much more powerful technologies. there's no way that bangladeshi are going to be staring >> but we can afford to do this kind of highly efficient manufacturing with lots of software and things. can poor countries do it? in other words, do we have time for everyone together as rich as america and then start decoupling of this dematerialization, as you call it? >> the only reason i'm not