think it's come around again. as to leadership, i go back and forth. i've made both arguments, sometimes in the course of a single day. there are times when i think that there is value in charismatic leadership just in the ability to focus and to have that focal point person who can ar ti articulate the needs of african-americans or whatever to the power structure but on the other hand that doesn't seem to be the model of this era and people are moving without that. i have to applaud that. you can't wait on dr. king to come back. it's not going to happen. >> let me ask you this. if there are merits to both kinds of movements, ultimately there's nothing like a ballot box. if you look back at the 2013 municipal election, the african-american turnout was 26%. if i recall -- in ferguson. if i recall, that was somewhat mirrored around the country as well. so ultimately, if change has to