more forthright spirit, with grace and compassion and love. unfortunately, in many christian communities, mental illness is a stigma and a taboo, and -- and many of us have failed in addressing it with a deliberate spirit and contextualization. it's an illness. heart disease didn't dilute your christianity. having cancer doesn't make you less of a christian. neither does mental illness. that's why i believe we need to create space. imagine if the christian community would work with mental health professionals in partnership in building firewalls, in addressing mental illness in a more sustainable and viable manner. >> in interviews the warrens did hint and did mention their son's mental illness. they didn't name him specifically, but were they open about it? did you know about matthew's issues? >> you know, again, as it pertains to our interactions, pastor rick is a wonderful leader across america and particularly in the evangelical community, but we -- we know that in many of our families we have children, if not relatives,