today's ruling? >> that this is a tough legal question. and very intelligent judges disagree about it, and it all increases the chance that the united states supreme court will have to settle this issue. it's worth pointing out, these two judges in one in washington, one in new york, were addressing the exact same question. is this metadata program legal? and they came to exactly opposite conclusions. the judge here in new york said it's legal. the judge in washington says it's illegal. both of them will be appealed. and we'll see what happens. >> all right, so paul, let me put this to you because just yesterday, we were talking about president obama a few months back calling al qaeda, quote, a shadow of its former self. but listen to what the judge said here. no doubt, he says, the bulky telephony met adata program vacuums up information about virtually every telephone call to, from, or within the united