number two, if i'm a captain and my jump seater starts punching buttons, i'm going to ask him to excuse himself from the cockpit. so it's unlikely they would allow a person up there. >> i would have to disagree -- >> go ahead, karleen, defend your theory. >> initially i thought beyond the flight engineer. we already know the first officer has a history of letting unauthorized people on the flight deck. the captain is -- >> just to be clear, they were very attractive australian women. >> absolutely. boys will be boys. we also know they do that. he has a passion for flying, he loves it. so some comes up, a private pilot, the middle of the night. we know one person lets people