as a role model, as a poll leadership model. quite the opposite in fact. the book is structured in a way to lead you to the conclusion that he thinks that donald trump is a terrible leader. >> and mattis was always said to be the adult in the room, one of the people protecting trump from trump. i could easily argue that he has a duty to talk about that experience. >> and that is what i argued. >> and what is his counter argument? >> and by the way it has a lot of merit. his counterargument is as a former general officer, as a former four star general, as a secretary of defense, he has to -- it is his responsibility not to further undermine a sitting president. there are national security consequences for someone of jim matt mattis' stature and his back ground to say this president is completely incompetent. the day after he says that, and i'm not saying that he would say that, but then donald trump would still be president.