we saw martin savidge navigating and going around and doing everything trying to get down, frantically trying to reduce altitude. it is an aggressive maneuver. what we saw on the radar returns was two-minute turn and remaining on heading for over an hour. >> go ahead. >> we need to try to zero in on the things that we can defend. and once you get the transponder an the acars turned off, now the airplane is free, except for that skin paint that the military radar can look at and the military radar that we have been getting reports on just are not that great. i'm really concerned about the pilots right now. >> yeah. you agree with that, right? it is not that -- you agree it is not that great? >> i think jim sort of absolutely is right. i think the air defense radars that we're looking at have a better capability, but my question is if the military is saying it descended to 12,000 feet, that, to me, is something very unusual. why didn't they interrogate?