>> just to be clear on taxes, i think we have some areas of emerging -- not consensus, convergence of views. i think there's a broad sense the tax code is too complex, that it should be simplified. there's a broad sense that there are loopholes and credits that make the system unfair and distort the economy. >> let me ask you about the debt ceiling. when will we hit it? >> i think washington pays entirely too much attention trying to figure out the day we run out -- >> i don't need to know the day. just circa when do you think that's going to be necessary? >> i said publicly we can get through labor day. obviously, as we get closer, we'll have a better sense much there's a great deal of danger of trying to pinpoint. congress should act immediately. we hit the debt ceiling in may. we've been using extraordinary measures since may to pay our bills. we'll do that for as long as we can. there's the risk of trying to