hear and decide whether former president trump can be disqualified from the presidential ballot under the 14th amendment ban on insurrectionists holding office. liz cheney would not go so far as to say she supports taking trump off the ballot, but she said his actions clearly constituted an offense that is within the language of the 14th amendment. my guess covering you for some time now is that you don't support taking trump off the ballot. you probably prefer that be left up to the voters. but setting that aside, do you think donald trump engaged in insur insurrection? >> i've never called what happened on january 6 an insurrection. it is noteworthy that even in the federal case in washington, d.c. the president hasn't been charged with insurrection. jake, i was there. it was a riot the way it broke out. and i've never seen it any other way. and while i said that the president's words were reckless,