they talk about issues, how are you labeled hour, do you understand the problems of people of the average american? >> those things are, jimmy carter -- >> i think with trump, the contrast is, that in some way that it wasn't presidential for jimmy carter to do that. >> right. >> that he looked weak and wimpy, right? whereas trump's whole brand and whole persona is about being bold and brash. >> and rich. >> and rich. but that has a declining, i think, people voters have a declining appreciation for that over time. >> that's interesting. let's talk about jeb bush's campaign. anonymous republican donor told politico there are real anxiety inside the jeb bush for campaign, it's at a six or a seven on a scale of one to ten. bush campaign pushes back, they say it's nonsense. they picked up some of walker's fund-raisers. >> here's the interesting thing