out and can they bring him back to the table in a reasonable way? he's had four years of doing what he wants on the world stage. it's a little hard to put that genie back in the bottle. >> if putin does not listen to president biden and the next hacking attack is worse than solarwinds or jbs or colonial pipeline, do you think it will seem that president biden has failed? >> well, it's not over. he will be failing, but he's got four years. there are a number of measures they can take. both positive and negative, carrots and sticks, you know, sanctions and also helping u.s. companies protect themselves. we have to clean up our own shop before we point fingers elsewhere. there's always going to be criminals and putin will always be a bad guy, a killer so we have to shore up our own system to make sure they're not ripe for this stealing but abby is exactly right. if he doesn't want to play ball we will have four years of