to say, oh, the zoning is con straining. he sees the zoning as -- i won't say lib rating, but as something that if you master it, you can move on to a higher level. >> you can say planet earth has an existing geology, and what we do as human beings and as architects is that we try to sort of alter and modify and expand the geology. when you look at it this way, you realize that our cities and our buildings and architecture isn't the way it is because there is some kind of universal law that says that's how it has to be. they're the way they are because that's how far we got the last time we tried, and since it's an ongoing experiment like human persons on planet earth is constantly evolving, and so should architecture in our cities. >> when we come back, engle shares his passion for big ideas, and a human prodigy pur