thing to do was to wait. and as i mentioned earlier, i also think that there was probably very likely a counterintelligence value to understanding how the chinese are collecting information against the united states. the value of that counterintelligence really can't be overstated. it's incredibly important. >> and what does this say about the u.s./china relationship and just the brazen nature of chinese's intelligence-gathering in the united states? it's more extensive, i think, than people realize. >> yeah. that's one of the most interesting parts of this whole thing is that usually nations will collect intelligence against each other in very quiet ways. in other words, they don't usually try to make it public or make a show of it. and so for china to be this brazen about it and then make a statement about it after this thing was shot down and not distance themselves from this thing or say, oh, it wasn't ours, or so forth, i thought was