norm. it's an abuse such that we find it intolerant to the point of nullifying the election. >> yeah. >> it's a high bar. >> well, when they say high crimes and misdemeanors, it's not that it has to be a high crime. it means a person who is committing the high crime or the misdemeanor or the bad pabehavi is in a high position. you know that. that's what the -- >> i think it's a nonexistent standard, but you've got to make the case, and it's got to be high because in the past when they've made the case, it's been the real deal. >> it's been really amazing watching different programs today. it's like we're living in two different universes. >> but when you're doing the legal analysis, look, politicians and pundits will yap all night the way that their partisan stripe tells them to. legal minds mining into what the questions are and how they'll be rebutted, that's what you want when you're trying to form your judgments here. >> as you pointed out, impeachment is not just -- it's a political process. >> it's all political. it has no legal effect. >> when people say it's just politics, impeachment is political by nature.