called a traitor, or anything else. sometimes whistle-blowers do wonderful things to help our society, and it's not just in government. it's across the board. >> well, before we run out of time, i want to get to this story. i've got to get your take on this new reporting tonight from "the new york times" about the president's ideas for securing the border. this is from a meeting this past march. the president often talked about fortifying a border wall with a water filled trench, stocked with snakes or alligators prompting aides to seek a cost estimate. he wanted the wall electrified. after public -- the president backed off when his staff told him that was illegal. later in a meeting, aides recall, he suggested they shoot migrants in the legs to slow them down. that's not allowed either, they told him. listen, we're talking about the treatment of human beings here. >> don, let me sku a question. can you easteven believe this? >> no, i can't. >> i can't believe it either. i said to my wife, i said, he