u.s. democratic -- and threaten our democracy. is this behavior that you believe has grown over time or do you thing this has been there? j.w.? >> i think it's been there since the very beginning. in part because we know that the it -- i mean donald trump is not a very clever -- he's not very clever in his corruption. he uses the same playbook over and over. the playbook he used in the events leading up. not clear he was able to seal it deal. so that's why the messaging was messy. he thought he got away with it so he immediately went back to the same playbook. so it's always been there. >> george connolly who of course hoped to form this group of all of you, the checks and balances. he spoke to former u.s. attorney