apparently he listened in on the phone call, which is quite logical given his position on the national security council. so all the narratives criticizing the whistle-blower as having reported hearsay, well, that's not the case here. and the other point, of course, is once again this story has been further reinforced and, in my view n an unassailable way. >> does this comport with what the president says was a perfect call when you hear this testimony? >> well, obviously not. i mean that's a narrative that the president would like people to believe, that it was a harmless -- a perfect call, but obviously it didn't strike a lot of other people that way. >> yeah. like other witnesses, vindman talks about a shadow foreign policy. this is more of his statement right now. he said, when i joined the nsc in july of 2018, i ganim