the president says was a perfect call when you hear this testimony? >> well, obviously not. i mean that's a narrative that the president would like people to believe, that it was a harmless -- a perfect call, but obviously it didn't strike a lot of other people that way. >> yeah. like other witnesses, vindman talks about a shadow foreign policy. this is more of his statement right now. he said, "when i joined the nsc in july of 2018, i began implementing the administration's policy on ukraine. in the spring of 2019, i became aware of outside influencers promoting a false narrative of ukraine inconsistent with the consensus views of the interagency. this narrative was harmful to u.s. government policy. while my interagency colleagues and i were becoming increasingly optimistic on ukraine's prospects, this alternative narrative undermined u.s. government efforts to expand cooperation with ukraine. so many officials were concerned about this alternative