you'd have to go back to 1984 when mondale held first, but gary hart, who was at 4% on the night of the j-j dinner -- >> thanks for the history lesson. i got to get mark in. mark, listen, pete buttigieg is surging in the new iowa poll. he's in the top tier with elizabeth warren, bernie sanders, and joe biden. what does that tell you about his candidacy and where the party is as a matter of fact? >> well, i think it means that the party is looking for a pragmatic, clear centrist vote. i think they're looking for an alternative to joe biden. i think a lot of the biden