we expect it's going to go to the appeals court over the next few months and then possibly to the supreme court. keep in mind one of the more interesting thing has been mick mulvaney. one of the things he said or his earlier legal team said was they were going to abide or look at the mcgahn ruling as sort of their guidepost. i'm not sure if they believe that anymore, but certainly what we've heard from all of these officials' lawyers is they're reviewing the ruling. they're going to see what else the justice department does as far as appeals is concerned. but you can bet, laura, everybody who has wanted to show up for these impeachment hearings have done so. the ones who don't want to show up have been doing the opposite. so i think you're going to expect that they're going to keep waiting for these appeals to work their way through. >> evan perez, thank you for your reporting. joining me now is max boot, and kim wehle, author of how to read the constitution and why. first of all, kim -- great book by the way. i also want to ask you the idea of evan talks about giving cover essentially. those who wanted to testify were