want to talk to their american counterpart because they are talking from a position of disadvantage. they go to great extent to choreograph any discussions or interface that you have with them to make them appear to be from a position of leverage. >> bill: i just want to pull this quote from the "wall street journal." let ukraine go on offense against russia. to our viewers at home check out this piece. the key line that i find. zelenskyy wants to go on the offensive. the more territory his forces can win back, the stronger position his country will have at the bargaining table. that makes sense, doesn't it? >> yeah. we've heard discussions earlier in the week of the russians -- of people saying they're pulling back. in the end will you have to push them out. ukrainians have done very good job of reacquiring territory that the russians have taken and there were just reports in the last 24 hours of them