defined, i think of financial services. think of the things we depend on every day. those are the targets. the financial sector, those are the targets. i think what is often not fully grasped is the entirety of the supply chain within those targets and so we think of the large banks in the large defense contractors but there is a supply chain underneath that. they are really just the tip of the iceberg and below that tip is where the vulnerabilities are. >> you would assume that in ukraine there is also this rapid-fire effort to attack some of the cybersecurity in that country as well. makes sense, right? >> of course. both preattack, post attack, and during. it's really an onslaught and you think of the traditional wars, the kinetic wars on the ground in the case of afghanistan they went on for many decades, in this cyber war, i don't know if we'll ever get out of it. going to forever be on defense