to see this kind of stuff go on, i mean there should have been huge red flags. >> you're a career diplomat. you've served in all kinds of different roles, and i want to put your -- first, i want to ask this, have you ever seen a conversation like this between the president and a head of state? >> no, never have. >> you've read these kind of memos before. >> yes, i have. sometimes they can be more candid than you think. but never with that kind of stuff including criticizing a u.s. ambassador. the one thing you kind of hope for the president is to stick up for his own people. that was just extraordinary reading that stuff. >> the president says this, the former ambassador of the united states, the woman was bad news. the people she was dealing with in ukraine were bad news. but then zelinsky says it's great you were the first one who told me she was a bad ambassador because i agree with you 100%. her attitude towards you was far from the best, she admired the previous president. i mean, what is that?