american law and using the return to mexico policy the way they've implemented metering it essentially no longer exists at the southern border. is that an accurate characterization? >> well, it's true that's what they're trying to do. some of those cases are still held up in court because we do have statutory right to asime both in our domestic laws but our treaties we're sigatory to. what they're doing is trying to discourage people over and over again in more and more draconian ways. first they tried it with family separation. they were actually separating children from their mothers and fathers, you covered that. that is still going on but in different ways. they they tried saying we're going to put a ban on asylum. the court said, no, you can't do that. they've cut refugee admissions, by the way. they're effectively trying to eliminate every legal way that people have to seek refuge in