the statutory basis for asylum. that this is enshrined in american law and using the return to mexico policy the way they implemented metering, it essentially no longer exists at the southern border. is that an accurate characterization? >> well, it's true that's what they're trying to do. some of those cases are still held up in court because we do have statutory right to asylum both in our domestic laws but also our human rights treaties that we are signal to. julie is right, what they are trying to do is discourage people over and over again in more and more draconian ways. first they tried it with family separation. they were actually separating children from their mothers and fathers. you covered that. a lot of people covered that. that is still going on but in different ways. then they tried saying we're going to put a ban on asylum. the court said, no, you can't do that. they have cut refugees admissions from 18,000, by the way, from 110,000.