very important point as to whether or not gordon sondland knew about the involvement of money or suspicions about involvement of money, how that was communicated to him isn't always necessarily cleared up in the supplemental. what is very clear now is that he was delivering the message to the ukrainians almost a very threatening message that if president trump's goals were not met, it was very unlikely, he said, that the $400 million -- nearly $400 million in security assistance to fend off russian aggression would not be released. >> you know, barbara, you talked about consciousness of guilt obviously in the reversal here of the memory being refreshed here on gordon sondland. i think you can arguably say there's evidence of that. also all of the behavior that's described here, all of this cloak and dagger stuff and skull duggery and the fact people were speaking in code and the president says talk to rudy, talk to rudy, because they want to outsource it through rudy.